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Chrono's Cosmology: Difference between revisions
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==Introduction== | ==Introduction== | ||
The following is an explanation that fully explains the entirety of the ''Chrono Trigger'', ''Radical Dreamers'', and ''Chrono Cross'' cosmology, originally it was a quickly made blog but after a while I decided to fully go all out with everything. | The following is an explanation that fully explains the entirety of the ''[[Chrono Trigger]]'', ''[[Radical Dreamers]]'', and ''[[Chrono Cross]]'' cosmology, originally it was a quickly made blog but after a while I decided to fully go all out with everything. | ||
==The Universes within Dreams== | ==The Universes within Dreams== | ||
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With this I believe we can accept dreams in the Chrono series are alternate universes, with infinite possibilities to them. This would already make the cosmology ''' | With this I believe we can accept dreams in the Chrono series are alternate universes, with infinite possibilities to them. This would already make the cosmology '''2-A+'''. | ||
==Possibilities== | ==Possibilities== | ||
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</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
So with this, we have clear cut confirmation there are infinite universes within the Chrono Trigger cosmology. For the base multiverse we have ''' | So with this, we have clear cut confirmation there are infinite universes within the Chrono Trigger cosmology. For the base multiverse we have '''2-A+''' in size. | ||
Along with this, the main multiverse is higher into ''' | Along with this, the main multiverse is higher into '''2-A+''' in size, a while back in Chrono Compendium there was a re-translation project, giving a better translation for the original Chrono Trigger then even what the DS version gave. [https://static.chronocompendium.com/Black/Publications/Retranslation/CT%20Retranslation%20-%20Chapter%2025-3.htm Within it, there is confirmation that there are multiple temporal dimensions within the Chrono universe]. | ||
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"Queen: This Black Dream flows across all temporal dimensions...... While waiting for that time when Lavos-sama will awaken..." | "Queen: This Black Dream flows across all temporal dimensions...... While waiting for that time when Lavos-sama will awaken..." | ||
With this in mind, the safe conservative estimate would be to assume at least 2 time dimensions. This would indicate there's 3 spatial dimensions + 2 time dimensions. | With this in mind, the safe conservative estimate would be to assume at least 2 time dimensions. This would indicate there's 3 spatial dimensions + 2 time dimensions. This doesn't really add much. | ||
We also have the '''Bend of Time'''. [https://youtu.be/rumQ6RJDPhg?t=13 A dimension outside of time where people or monsters "cross dimensions"]. | |||
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Bendoftime.png | Bendoftime.png | ||
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There's also realm inside of the '''Chrono Trigger''' is a [https://imgur.com/a/wbdhPtk place outside of all of space and time where Serge is able to view all infinite versions of himself and the entire multiverse]. | |||
<gallery type="slider"> | <gallery type="slider"> | ||
VedWCOP.png | |||
RIjRM5s.png | |||
SvwhPkN.png | |||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
There's also a "Real world", this is derived from the developer ending as since concepts such as the save file is canon. [https://youtu.be/Zssk1g72gOE?list=PLD3E81DAE4C670095&t=343 The developers can even jokingly reset all of reality back to the title screen]. | |||
One extra thing to note the "real world" even notes, [https://youtu.be/Zssk1g72gOE?list=PLD3E81DAE4C670095&t=277 it has alternate timelines]. | |||
<gallery type= "slider"> | |||
Alternaterealworld2.png | |||
Alternaterealworld.png | |||
</gallery> | |||
There's also places like the Arean of Ages, a place [https://youtu.be/N4Z0RJqEvTo?t=765 stated to be beyond the flow of time]. [https://youtu.be/N4Z0RJqEvTo?t=850 It's even further elaborated by the head of the Arena of Ages that time flows different here, to the point that one could call it a "different dimension"]. | |||
<gallery type="slider"> | <gallery type="slider"> | ||
Arenaofages.png | |||
Arenaofages2.png | |||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
Then we have a place so far beyond the multiverse it has [https://youtu.be/td4e3SrpmuE?t=7 no beginning or end]. It is described as a place that exists in a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDSw8MHwZaQ&feature=youtu.be&list=PL_sYhAj0WXROBlFPHkRJ2-AgOq8ndsPJK&t=1028 distant plane far beyond even the border of time’s eclipse]. This is the description for it given in Chrono Trigger however, [https://www.chronowiki.org/wiki/Darkness_Beyond_Time Chrono Cross this place is also known as “The Darkness Beyond Time”]. For Serge and his party to even reach the Darkness Beyond Time [https://youtu.be/JdFzy4ke6wc?list=PLlc94szfcNDH4dwyFm1JJ0M-D2sCJZeQm&t=2803 they require an object that allows them to go beyond space-time]. Something else interesting to note is that the darkness of time is a [https://youtu.be/bf7XXMl-bJc?list=PLlc94szfcNDH4dwyFm1JJ0M-D2sCJZeQm&t=3982 realm that's directly stated to be a darkness beyond the dimensions]. Making is a [[Dimensionless Existence|dimensionless layer]]. | |||
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</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
Now a core point of contention normally brought up with Chrono Cross is the existence of it's ending, as we learn in the ending the multiverse is merged into one new dimensional universe after the defeat of Lavos, however if you do New Game+, a canon element to the game, the multiverse is very clearly split apart and you can go back to fight Lavos. Though there are a couple of things to understand first. | |||
Now a core point of contention normally brought up with Chrono Cross is the existence of it's ending, as we learn in the ending the multiverse is merged into one | |||
For one when attempting to load New Game+ or more importantly, Continue+, a mode where you can bring your pre-established stats from a completed game and put it in a continue file, you cannot ever go back into your previous save, even if you try to load it normally the game will just send you to New Game+/Continue+[https://imgur.com/a/D9fDkBo]. | For one when attempting to load New Game+ or more importantly, Continue+, a mode where you can bring your pre-established stats from a completed game and put it in a continue file, you cannot ever go back into your previous save, even if you try to load it normally the game will just send you to New Game+/Continue+[https://imgur.com/a/D9fDkBo]. | ||
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Finally, a consistent canon ending to Chrono games is the developer ending, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zssk1g72gOE&list=PLD3E81DAE4C670095&index=1 an ending where you can go and speak to all of the developers of the game]. | Finally, a consistent canon ending to Chrono games is the developer ending, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zssk1g72gOE&list=PLD3E81DAE4C670095&index=1 an ending where you can go and speak to all of the developers of the game]. | ||
So with this each save block contains it's own cosmology within it explained above. With each save block being a | So with this each save block contains it's own cosmology within it explained above. With each save block being a multiverse with infinite universes. | ||
==Scaling== | ==Scaling== | ||
'''Dream Devourer:''' Schala stated she along with the Dream Devourer [https://youtu.be/QDSw8MHwZaQ?list=PL_sYhAj0WXROBlFPHkRJ2-AgOq8ndsPJK&t=1236 was going to destroy all of existence]. With this in mind and the fact that we see in Chrono Cross Schala is aware of the Darkness Beyond Time, we can infer that Schala was referring to the entire cosmology sans the real world thus putting Dream Devourer at | '''Dream Devourer:''' Schala stated she along with the Dream Devourer [https://youtu.be/QDSw8MHwZaQ?list=PL_sYhAj0WXROBlFPHkRJ2-AgOq8ndsPJK&t=1236 was going to destroy all of existence]. With this in mind and the fact that we see in Chrono Cross Schala is aware of the Darkness Beyond Time, we can infer that Schala was referring to the entire cosmology sans the real world thus putting Dream Devourer at an eventually '''2-A+''' as this most likely refers to what he'd eventually becomes, which would be the Time Devourer. | ||
'''Time Devourer:''' Time Devourer Lavos [https://youtu.be/NLJa5-uIuOE?t=965 naturally exists in the Darkness Beyond Time and was going to destroy everything] if Serge and party did not stop him, with this he should fully scale to everything that's not the real world. | '''Time Devourer:''' Time Devourer Lavos [https://youtu.be/NLJa5-uIuOE?t=965 naturally exists in the Darkness Beyond Time and was going to destroy everything] if Serge and party did not stop him, with this he should fully scale to everything that's not the real world. | ||
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</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
'''Chrono Cross:''' [https://youtu.be/D2AVskd5r3A?t=539 The Chrono Cross merged everything] [https://youtu.be/D2AVskd5r3A?t= | '''Chrono Cross:''' [https://youtu.be/D2AVskd5r3A?t=539 The Chrono Cross merged everything] [https://youtu.be/D2AVskd5r3A?t=440 into a new dimensional universe], [https://youtu.be/Zssk1g72gOE?list=PLD3E81DAE4C670095 interestingly enough the action of doing this is even how you can get to the programmer's ending], heavily implying Serge even merged the real world. So the Chrono Cross would fully scale to the cosmology. | ||
[[Category:Chrono Cross]] | [[Category:Chrono Cross]] |
Latest revision as of 16:36, 1 July 2024
![](/images/e/ec/Bb85a5f5e03cf590cd5027a873ec10bb.png)
Introduction
The following is an explanation that fully explains the entirety of the Chrono Trigger, Radical Dreamers, and Chrono Cross cosmology, originally it was a quickly made blog but after a while I decided to fully go all out with everything.
The Universes within Dreams
Before we can get into the overall expansive cosmology of Chrono we must start with people's dreams.
Dreams are alternate universes in Chrono, described by Masa and Mune along with the scholars of Zeal that the world within the dream is merely another world. With them even stating that "there are many different worlds as there are observers".
For further elaboration, during a scene with Orhla's dying alternate dimension sister. Her sister goes into depth over her dream and how it is like alternate possibilities/potentialities.
With these we come to understand that dreams are compared with possibilities and are a world that's "observed" in a sense. Along with this an alternate timeline Magus makes mention there are as many worlds as there are potentialities.
With this I believe we can accept dreams in the Chrono series are alternate universes, with infinite possibilities to them. This would already make the cosmology 2-A+.
Possibilities
Though for dreams with infinite possibilities to work, we need to see if possibilities spawn alternate universes, which we can do very easily. Within Chrono Trigger there are about 12 endings each with different possibilities to them. We know every ending in Chrono Trigger is canon, as in Chrono Cross, they bring up an ancient city of reptiles from “another dimension’s future”.
This is important to Chrono Trigger as one of the endings you can get is if you defeat Lavos without facing Azala and the Black Tyranno, heavily implying Ayla dies to Azala without your help, which causes an ending where everyone becomes Reptites. To add on, there is even a future where only reptities exist is also shown in Chrono Trigger’s DS post-game.
This would conclude that every dream, potentiality, possibility, ending, etcetera, is canon in Chrono Trigger. Along with this, each possibility spawns a universe.
Other Infinite Showings
During a conversation regarding how to get up to the floating Tower after the Dragon Gods betray Serge and his party, Glenn at one point states the world has infinite possibilities.
Though if you do not buy simply Orhla stating Tia or Glenn stating there's infinite possibilities, look no further then when Serge from Radical Dreamers gets sent into the dimension of the Chrono Trigger beyond time and space and sees infinite versions of himself.
So with this, we have clear cut confirmation there are infinite universes within the Chrono Trigger cosmology. For the base multiverse we have 2-A+ in size.
Along with this, the main multiverse is higher into 2-A+ in size, a while back in Chrono Compendium there was a re-translation project, giving a better translation for the original Chrono Trigger then even what the DS version gave. Within it, there is confirmation that there are multiple temporal dimensions within the Chrono universe.
"Queen: This Black Dream flows across all temporal dimensions...... While waiting for that time when Lavos-sama will awaken..."
With this in mind, the safe conservative estimate would be to assume at least 2 time dimensions. This would indicate there's 3 spatial dimensions + 2 time dimensions. This doesn't really add much.
We also have the Bend of Time. A dimension outside of time where people or monsters "cross dimensions".
There's also realm inside of the Chrono Trigger is a place outside of all of space and time where Serge is able to view all infinite versions of himself and the entire multiverse.
There's also a "Real world", this is derived from the developer ending as since concepts such as the save file is canon. The developers can even jokingly reset all of reality back to the title screen.
One extra thing to note the "real world" even notes, it has alternate timelines.
There's also places like the Arean of Ages, a place stated to be beyond the flow of time. It's even further elaborated by the head of the Arena of Ages that time flows different here, to the point that one could call it a "different dimension".
Then we have a place so far beyond the multiverse it has no beginning or end. It is described as a place that exists in a distant plane far beyond even the border of time’s eclipse. This is the description for it given in Chrono Trigger however, Chrono Cross this place is also known as “The Darkness Beyond Time”. For Serge and his party to even reach the Darkness Beyond Time they require an object that allows them to go beyond space-time. Something else interesting to note is that the darkness of time is a realm that's directly stated to be a darkness beyond the dimensions. Making is a dimensionless layer.
Now a core point of contention normally brought up with Chrono Cross is the existence of it's ending, as we learn in the ending the multiverse is merged into one new dimensional universe after the defeat of Lavos, however if you do New Game+, a canon element to the game, the multiverse is very clearly split apart and you can go back to fight Lavos. Though there are a couple of things to understand first.
For one when attempting to load New Game+ or more importantly, Continue+, a mode where you can bring your pre-established stats from a completed game and put it in a continue file, you cannot ever go back into your previous save, even if you try to load it normally the game will just send you to New Game+/Continue+[1].
Along with this there exists an in canon save function known as the record of fate, not only is it directly told to you by three NPCs, but the Record of Fate also has massive plot relevance to the overall story of Chrono Cross.
Finally, a consistent canon ending to Chrono games is the developer ending, an ending where you can go and speak to all of the developers of the game.
So with this each save block contains it's own cosmology within it explained above. With each save block being a multiverse with infinite universes.
Scaling
Dream Devourer: Schala stated she along with the Dream Devourer was going to destroy all of existence. With this in mind and the fact that we see in Chrono Cross Schala is aware of the Darkness Beyond Time, we can infer that Schala was referring to the entire cosmology sans the real world thus putting Dream Devourer at an eventually 2-A+ as this most likely refers to what he'd eventually becomes, which would be the Time Devourer.
Time Devourer: Time Devourer Lavos naturally exists in the Darkness Beyond Time and was going to destroy everything if Serge and party did not stop him, with this he should fully scale to everything that's not the real world.
Chrono Cross: The Chrono Cross merged everything into a new dimensional universe, interestingly enough the action of doing this is even how you can get to the programmer's ending, heavily implying Serge even merged the real world. So the Chrono Cross would fully scale to the cosmology.