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User:GiverOfThePeace/Regarding FTL (And Above) JoJos
This page is going to go through the feats regarding Faster Than Light JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Feat #1: Hanged Man vs. Silver Chariot
Feat In Question:
Polnareff cuts Hanged Man that he notes moves almost at the speed of light.
Response:
This heavily relies on Polnareff already knowing the trajectory of Hanged Man to make this feat happen. There are literally numerous statements that outright explain this is the only way he was going to tag him.
Polnareff outright says he a stand of light is too fast to hit with his sword. Kakyoin has to use a coin flip to have everyone's eyes focus on the coin making Hanged Man go there, allowing Polnareff to know where Hanged Man is coming from. Polnareff also directly notes that he was not able to hit him since he was moving almost at the speed of light.
J. Geil flat-out says that they wouldn't be able to keep up with his stand if the amount of surfaces to reflect off was in a higher number, confirming that Polnareff does indeed need to know the path ahead of time to make this feat work. J. Geil directly ntoes says they wouldn't be able to hit Hanged Man because of the amount of surfaces it can jump back to either. The latter part just adds another restriction contextually to the scene and doesn't alter what he says really.
There are potential arguments that Polnareff is able to "see" Hanged Man actually move if one look at the panels. However, it's shown in both the anime and the OVA that he just notices the reflection from the stand, he can't actually keep up to how fast it's moving.
Along with this, the claim of Polnareff "seeing" the light is not how typical light works. One can usually only detect light when it makes contact with a surface, not actually see it right away.
| “ | Do you see the light or the reflected light? How do we see the light ray here? It is the surfaces of dust particles which reflect the light. From big planets to minuscule dust particles, without SURFACES, we do not "see" light. | „ |
| ~ Archinect |
| “ | A photon is a boson particle. It can't actually be detected. What we detect is when a photon strikes something. It's the collision we detect. At the moment of collision, a photon no longer exists. Everything we know about light, is deduced by detecting these collisions. Light itself is undetectable. It neither emits, nor reflects anything which would allow us to detect it. | „ |
| ~ LessWrong |
What's more likely happening here is that Polnareff is noticing the collision of Hanged Man's light on the reflective surfaces. The way the Manga has it set up even seems to compliment this idea more than anything. As for the OVA and the Anime? Well, the OVA/Anime are also actually pretty consistent with this idea too. The viewer is able to see it so that the viewer has a clear understanding of how Hanged Man is moving.
Bonus Debunk Material:
Hanged Man likely isn't even moving at the speed of light as there are times in the arc where, Hanged Man is only described as being essentially light or that he is moving at almost the speed of light. Hanged Man's JOJO-A-GOGO description also backs this up.
| “ | 本体が隠れて攻撃できる射程距離の長さもさることながら、光に近いスピードで移動できるのが特徴。軌道を読んで攻撃を仕掛けるためには、かなりのスピードが必要だ。 | „ |
| ~ Original Kanji |
| “ | Its specialty is not only its large attack range and ability to hide its body, but also its ability to move near the speed of light. In order to read its trajectory and launch an attack, considerable speed is necessary. | „ |
| ~ Translation |
This description says that it only moves near the speed of light rather than at it.
Feat #2: Jotaro Stated to Exceed the Speed of Light
Statement In Question:
Response:
A translation with better grammatical structure showcased this was referring to his time stop (backup): While it wasn't incredibly different from the original, it was different enough to note a massive difference in the speed of light portion.
| “ | Stand Name: Star Platinum Body (host?): Jotaro Kujo (Joline's father)
Destructiveness: A Speed: A Range: C Stamina: A Accuracy (precise movements): A Growth: Complete Skills: In his prime (18 yo), because it moved so fast, it could surpass the speed of light to stop time in this world. Additionally, its "power" and "accuracy" are also very high. It really is the greatest Stand power second to none. Reference: 3rd arc of Jojo's Bizzare Adventure (vol. 8 to 17) JO-JO-A-GO!GO! (stands) A - Super amazing B - Amazing C - Human level D - Not good E - Really not good |
„ |
| ~ Reddit Translation |
This translation seems to directly state that the Time Stop is directly related to the speed. Not only that, it says that it reaches this speed during the actual time stop specifically. Thus this would only apply to Faster Than Light while in Time Stop much like Sakuya Izayoi from Touhou Project.
The raws for reference:
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The original Japanese version of the prior scan
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Another Japanese description of Star Platinum
Feat #3: Red Hot Chili Peppers Moving at the Speed of Light
Statement In Question:
Response:
Red Hot Chili Peppers Speed of Light statement is in reference specifically to him moving through wires.
Him moving through wires is also something reaffirmed in the anime.
His speed is also shown to be much higher then most of the cast. In his fight with Okuyasu, RHCP consistently blitzes The Hand and says he's too slow to hit him with the swipes. In practically all of the moments where The Hand actually does land something, it's because Akira is either distracted, forgot about The Hand's ability that allows him to spatially teleport things or himself, or he acts dumb cocky enough to let it happen (something he thinks about after he gets pummeled by Josuke from being cocky too). RHCP does all of this when he specifically isn't at his strongest either (Koichi even remarks this about his speed as Okuyasu can't even keep with RHCP's movement once he gets to his normal state).
Josuke's fights has some similarities; RHCP underestimates Josuke and gets pummeled by Josuke because of that, and he immediately overpowers him when he becomes serious. In the second fight. The very first thing that happens in the fight is that RHCP moves so fast that it moves Josuke without him noticing, and it turns Crazy Diamond's attack 180 degrees in the opposite direction. He does this so fast that Josuke thought that Akira was the one that moved. Josuke then proceeds to show his inability to tag RCHP after getting tagged by it, even when Koichi made him aware that RHCP was behind him. RHCP also moves so fast it leaves afterimages against Josuke. Further noted here. Josuke only manages to tag RHCP when he knows where he's coming from ahead of time. He also plans out his moves again to beat Akira by exploiting his hastiness. This is after he gets overpowered and blitzed once again.
He casually outspeeds Josuke and Okuyasu when he isn't actively being stupid or constrained for the sake of plot. This is without moving through wires too.
Now in terms of Koichi claiming Jotaro would be able to handle him, as shown above, Jotaro can exceed the speed of light while in time stop, which would easily allow him to deal with a speed of light user that only does it through going through wires. RHCP even mentions that what poses a threat to him about Jotaro is that he never lets his guard down and he can stop time and that he's faster then Jotaro as long as he doesn't stop time too. While the second part is him trying to provoke Okuyasu, one can provoke with true information thus this is not really relevant. He would naturally want to provoke Okuyasu as he already noted how Jotaro is a great threat to him.
Thus this is very context dependent.
Feat #4: Joseph and Caesar Reacting to a Laser
Feat In Question:
Response:
From the way the panel frames it, the laser is already passed Caesar and looks like it's about to pass Joseph too. What they're dodging more realistically here is the explosion from the beam, not the actual laser itself. That seems more likely what's intended given they seem to be looking down at the explosion as the subject of concern.
There is literally nothing showing that they were already moving when the laser is fired. It's completely out of Caesar and Joseph's way, and it looks like they haven't even moved while it's still mid-fire. The only time they move in the panel is by the time the resulting explosion already occurred.
The same issue exists in the anime: The sequence of the laser dodge happens at (0:07). Joseph and Caesar were already anticipating the light beam before it actually comes out.
Feat #5: Kars Reacting to Stroheim's Ultraviolet Light Beam
Feat In Question:
Response
The beam has a weird plasma-like quality to it with Stroheim noting that they made the beam somehow five times stronger than the ones used in Rome. On top of this, it doesn't seem like Kars was meant to react to this beam, the reasons are as follows:
- Instead of Kars moving out of the way of the beam, he instead puts his hand up, almost like when one puts their hands up to being hit by a flashlight.
- Some argue he would logically need to have his hand tore off if he didn't react properly, the issue is it's pretty common in fiction for ideas like this to not be acknowledged, such as this infamous laser scene in Totally Spies.
- The anime seems to support this idea too, he outright isn't able to block it, which is likely what the actual interpretation was meant to be.
Another thing to note is also the actual way the UV rays are output is somewhat inconsistent too.
Though on top of this too Esidisi is outright blitzed by direct light earlier on:
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Scan 1
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Scan 2
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Scan 3
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Scan 4
This also exists within the anime. Esidisi getting tagged by the beam is the exact same here too.
Feat #6: Silver Chariot Reacting to the Sun's Lasers
Feat In Question:
Response
The lasers are from a miniature sun made from spiritual energy already making it quite dubious, though the anime also showcases some further issues.
The sequence of the Sun activating begins at (2:09). For one, some of the beams just randomly disappear in mid-air for no reason. Following that, the "melting" has things turn into magma just from immediate contact. This seems to act more like heat beams then anything.
Joseph says they are like lasers, not that they are lasers meaning he views them as a comparison rather then literal lasers.
Conclusion
If one would like to argue against these reasonings, a CRT is a healthy way to handle it.
