User:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sandbox3

Introduction

Welcome to the DebatesJungle wiki Sonic scaling blog. This blog is designed to cover the general scaling of Sonic the Hedgehog's series of games, from the main cast's physical power and speed to the Super forms granted by the Chaos Emeralds. We will also be addressing various arguments and how we handle them here on our site.

Take note this blog will be updated by the support of the community. So please feel free to leave a comment detailing feats and scenes in the series that could be added to the blog to further justify its arguments. All that is requested by us is that the comments remain ad civil as possible and follow the rule written below.

American Sonic vs Japanese Sonic

Before diving into the flames of scaling, we first need to establish the difference between American Sonic and Japanese Sonic. A video made by Cybershell establishes the sheer number of differences between the series' portrayal from "minor" dialogue changes in recent game Sonic Forces to major changes such as the main antagonist, Dr.Eggman, never being called "Robotnik" in the Japanese series. For this reason, this information blog will prioritize the Japanese dialogue over the English text as much as possible.

Power Scaling

Rings

To start out, rings allow the user to survive lethal attacks from far stronger characters they couldn't normally. For those thinking this is a simple game mechanic, rings directly play a role in staged battles between characters like Shadow, are seen in cutscenes in the games, and allow items present in the series to work off the rings in-verse.

With rings, scaling the characters through durability becomes incredibly difficult in most scenarios due to how they work in fights, so most forms of scaling often used by other verses will be disregarded here for the most part.

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Base Sonic Cast Power

Classic Era

We currently have the Classic era listed as Multi-City Block based on a re-calculation of Sonic destroying a mountain done by MrWarner. Supporting feats include that such as Dr.Robotnik surving his bike-thing exploding, and general game obstacles found in 1, 2, 3&K, and CD.

Super and Hyper Forms

There are arguments for tier 2 Super/Hyper forms, but they don't hold any accuracy for the reasons below:

Egg Salamander

The argument here is that Super Sonic and Burning Blaze fought Egg Salamander who drained the power of the Sol Emeralds, which their presence with the Chaos Emeralds caused both of Sonic's world and Blaze's world to merge and collapse thus it's a universal feat.

Issue:

Here is the problem, both sets of emeralds cannot exist in the same dimension since they are tied into their respective dimensions that are linked with their own chaos energy, Chaos Energy has influence over the universe, so their co-existence caused a rift in the space-time continuum that is slowly expanding overtime.It should be noted that Sonic, Blaze and Eggman mentioned how the emeralds are like magnets that attract and repel each other.

This proves that the feat is literally just Chain Reactions so by proxy it doesn't scale to physical.

Examples of similar feats:

Bill Cipher made a rip in the dimension was going to eventually destroy the very fabric of existence.

The combination of Present and past versions of both of Sherman and Peabody caused a hole in the space-time continuum that keeps expanding and merging the time periods with each other and eventually will cause destruction.

The co-existence of two Fredbears at the same time caused the end of the universe.

Egg Wizard

The basis of the Egg Wizard being Low Multiversal comes from what Dr.Eggman Nega said and these scans.

Issue 1:

Not only those screenshots are from a fan-site, but they also have no source backing them up in the game itself, so using them is null.

Issue 2:

Let us re-check what Eggman Nega said:

Dr.Nega never said the power of the stars created those universes but actually said "What makes this possible" especially when he said "separate dimensions", that just means the power of the stars ensures that Sonic's world and Blaze's being separate from each other considering how they're linked with each other, Making two universes separate from each other can be done with creating dimensional barriers between the two universes, which is just Space-Time Manipulation and Quantum mechanics aka hax, another thing is that the power of the stars are called dimensional energy between Sonic's world and Blaze's world so that further proves it's hax since you cannot quantify controlling "dimensional energy"

Solaris

The Argument here is that Super Sonic, Super Shadow and Super Silver defeated Solaris was going to destroy the whole multiverse hence they're multiversal.

Issue 1:

The Super Hedgehogs aren't stronger than Solaris neither they scale to him at all, because they cannot damage him at all, as stated by Eggman, the only way to defeat Solaris was to target his armor firstly which is something that is anchoring his existence just to defeat him. So it shouldn't even the same durability as the true form/body of light from just the fact the Super trio cannot lend a single damage to the true form period especially since Eggman's statements about being super-dimensional was specifically for his body of light and not his armor, After that they need to attack his core aka his consciousness, it was specifically noted in the guide that the core is Solaris' Achilles Heel. The story of Achilles is that it was impossible for him to be harmed significantly in any way. However, he was killed when a arrow struck his heel (the back part of the human foot below the ankle) because it was the only part of his body that wasn't dipped in the River Styx so it was vulnerable. The selectivity of the analogy alone debunks any assumption that the core isn't weaker than the rest of his body. Also they're specifically targeting his mind to just hurt him, meaning they're inflicting mental damage (which is also durability negation) and not physical.

Issue 2:

As we know, the primary reasons why Solaris is commonly viewed as tier 2 are from Eggman stating he will consume all timelines/time and can eat dimensions for lunch.

However, we have the power of context. This feat still very much is tier 2, but we need to establish how Solaris is consuming it.

According to Shadow and followed up by Eggman, this is being caused by a space-time intersection, which is eventually going to cause time to get destroyed. What this means is this was the cause of it. This is further backed up when Eggman established he can pull things from other dimensions within the warped space. Finally, to make things worse, putting away Solaris' true form within any point in time makes him gone from all points in time.

Time Eater

The basis of this argument this time around is that Time Eater destroyed all of reality and turned The world into White Space and he can erase time and space.

Issues:

Time Eater never destroyed the entire universe at all, all he did was just traveling through time and BFR'ing Areas into white space (which is another dimension mind you, not the destroyed universe, notably when everything was restored, it's still there).Him being able to travel through time disproves time being destroyed, adding on that Tails implied that the world wasn't destroyed yet and that Eggman's intentions were never about erasing the world but rather dominating it.

And then we have the statements of Time eater Destroying Time, but honestly, that only refers to the areas that Time Eater sent to White space considering that when sonic moves too fast, time within those areas is restored. So the scale is less than universal.

The evidence in the guide doesn't add anything to make the feat universal at all, because Destroy in this context can just mean ruin/causing chaos. let's check the definition of the word destroy:

destroy

verb

de·​stroy di-ˈstrȯi  

destroyed; destroying; destroys

transitive verb

1

: to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of

also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds

their reputation was destroyed

a disease that destroys the body's ability to fight off illness

… destroyed any hope of a return to past crackdowns … George Brock

This is more fitting considering that the troop of Changing the events through time can cause it's destruction is very common in fiction.

Things for Chaos Emeralds

The 7 chaos emeralds together are narratively below tier 2 and Moreso consistently tier 5 due to reasons such as:

Chaos with all seven Chaos Emeralds was going to destroy the world. Said emeralds were left completely drained of their power before Sonic and co restored them to fight Chaos. Given Chaos did this exact feat in the past, it's likely it was a surface wipe, which gets multi-continental; probably one of the lowest showings of power for the Chaos Emeralds, although this was with negative chaos energy.

The Eclipse Cannon was designed to destroy the planet with the power of all seven Chaos Emeralds

It was directly stated by Dr.Gerald that all seven Chaos Emeralds could destroy the planet, and we see later that feats like these are done with most of the Chaos Emerald's power.

It took the combined effort of all seven Chaos Emeralds to crack the planet and unleash Dark Gaia from his slumber, leaving the Chaos Emeralds completely drained and needing to recharge.

Furthermore, once Sonic recharged all seven Chaos Emeralds, he barely beat a final form Dark Gaia, with the help of Chip/Light Gaia, who was directly stated to be planetary in power.

“

'This world and Dr. Eggman's world exist in "'separate dimensions". Each of us can think of the other as what is known as a "parallel universe." What makes this possible is this so-called "Power of the Stars."

„

Super Sonic and Burning Blaze are threatened by Egg Wizard's planet busting attack.

Speed Scaling

Base Sonic cast Speed

No Sonic characters will innately have Speed of Light or FTL travel speed at any point without specific equipment or abilities. Instead, the characters will be placed at Relativistic+ due to keeping pace with lasers. While under normal circumstances, we'd just consider this FTL, Sonic's case is different due to the explanation given below:

Storybook Cosmology

the Arabian Nights & King Arthur and the knights of the round table are storybooks containing fictional stories where the very text is used to change the world and the stories along with the pages destroyed cause the world to vanish, with it further being shown that the stories are keeping characters from coming into the real world. When Sonic goes (via Shrinking btw) into these worlds, he's written into the story. That makes any feat that is performed there is just 11-A

Conclusion

Quite the unpopular tiering for the characters, we know. However, this is narratively the most consistent and accurate to how the franchise portrays the Sonic cast and the Chaos Emeralds.