User:DatOneWeeb/Tier 1? Not In My Mario

I swear every argument for tier 1 Mario is so bad, and it's becoming so common. Sad. Well, it's time to establish why they're bad. For note, if you'd like to discuss this further, you may contact me in my message wall and we can go on from there.

String Theory Soup

I'm more of a Maruchan guy.

The basis of this argument is that within Wario: Masters of Disguise, there exists a soup titled the "String Theory Soup".

“	All the secrets of the universe are contained in this soup. Drink not, lest you learn more than man was ever meant to know.	„
	~ In-game description

The argument here is that the soup is meant to teach you the secret of the universe, that being String Theory. Due to following String Theory, this would mean the verse at minimum is 10 dimensional.

Issue 1

Let's start off strong and take this at face value, saying the series truly does run on String Theory. And this overall argument relates to all dimensional arguments. The problem is following String Theory does not mean your universe is larger as you might picture. String Theory when referring to extra dimensions are using mathematical dimensions, also known as spatial dimensions.

“	In everyday life, there are three familiar dimensions (3D) of space: height, width and length. Einstein's general theory of relativity treats time as a dimension on par with the three spatial dimensions; in general relativity, space and time are not modeled as separate entities but are instead unified to a four-dimensional (4D) spacetime.	„
	~ Wikipedia

“	A measure of spatial extent, especially width, height, or length.	„
	~ Definition of a spatial dimension

A spatial dimension, or mathematical dimension, is in reference to ones width, height, and length. They're axis of movements. What this means is that a 3D object has a more spatial extent, or a larger axis. What this means is that they can move in more directions than a 2D object. So in the case of a 10 dimensional universe, what that simply means is that the universe has the potential to be able to move within more directions. Adding more dimensions only means you have more means of movement than just height, width, and length. It's not at all an increase of size.

In addition to these problems, even if you were to accept extra spatial dimensions as higher infinities, the extra spatial dimensions described by String Theory are compactified, existing at extremely small scales that are imperceptible to us, unlike the unbounded three spatial dimensions that we experience normally. The only variations of this theory that include large extra dimensions are modeled after brane cosmology, which obviously is not a core part of String Theory, nor is it supported by observational data.

You're only arguing that the character can move in more directions than 3D beings. This is fairly consistent with how Mario treats dimensions. In games such as Super Mario RPG: Legends of the Seven Stars, you're most likely familiar with Culex and how he's a 2 dimensional being. Despite this, not only is he larger than your party (in terms of height and length, not width), he can also physically interact with 3D beings just fine. Proving that an increase of dimensionality is meaningless in power.

“	You living ones before me… Why do you possess thickness? Why do you have such solidity? I am made of the power of evil. My form is depicted on naught but a flat surface.	„
	~ Culex's original dialogue

This can also be proven in Super Paper Mario. You're given the ability of Flip.

“	Flip between 2-D and 3-D to get through tricky situations and find secrets.	„
	~ In-game description

Flip is an ability that lets Mario flip from the 2nd dimension to the 3rd dimension. However, this ability is merely used to move within an extended axis. The gimmick is that you can move in directions a 2D being would normally unable to walk to. This does not however increase your power. Meaning attack 2D enemies or 2D enemies attack you in 3D does not give one an advantage in strength. Further proving having more dimensions does not overall mean you're an entity bigger than a lower dimensional location. All it does is give you a new axis to move within. Slim's ability also makes the user one-dimensional, yet no power decrease happens against a 2D nor 3D being.

Issue 2

Now we elaborate why it doesn't follow String Theory. The name is purely there for fun, its description never makes it out to be ever in relation to String Theory. The common argument is that "secrets of the universe" that "no man is supposed to know" means String Theory. There's an issue with this statement. If the secret were String Theory, then it wouldn't be a secret of the universe. String Theory has already well been established as to what it is. Not much of a secret if it's been discovered, it would just be a confirmation. Not to mention if it were an unknown knowledge on String Theory, that establishes that we as people are unaware of what String Theory in-full, so that means how String Theory actually functions is up in the air if it were meant to be a secret no man is supposed to know. Either interpretation has a problem.

Matter Splatter Galaxy/Mystery Circle Galaxy

In Super Mario Galaxy, the level within the said galaxy is titled, "Watch Your Step". More accurately, "A Super-dimensional Street" in the Japanese version. Which means its described to be a "hyperspace", in which hyperspaces are a space of more than three dimensions. In addition to this, the level seems to phase in and out of a 3D space, much like how it happens when a 4D object interacts with a 3D object.

“	Space of more than three dimensions.	„
	~ One definition of hyperspace

Issue 1

Let's establish the dimension part first again in an assumption that their definition of a hyperspace truly means what they think. This brings back the same problem with the String Theory argument. Higher spatial dimensions are not an increase of size. In-fact, the video attached actually further proves that this is the case. From our perspectives as a 3D being, a 4D object would disappear from our sight if the 4D object moves in a direction that we can't view (Note that while being an example of 2D to 3D, the same video establishes when going to 3D to 4D, it's the same concept with just a different axis). This only means that the size isn't any larger, this only means that the location is possible to move within a direction 3D beings can't. Overall the dimension argument is the same.

Issue 2

We need to go over the definition of a hyperspace in general. While it is true that hyperspace can mean a space with more than three dimensions, it isn't the only definition.

“	A notional space-time continuum in which it is possible to travel faster than light.	„
	~ Science fiction definition of hyperspace

It can also very well mean being within a universe where faster than light travel is possible. The first definition of a hyperspace is not the primary one when taking sci-fi fiction into account. Hence why the definition specifies when mentioning this. This would mean that the location is being accessed with faster than light travel. In fact Japan very much still uses this definition. That travel method being with the Launch Star, which is shown on many occasions to have such speed. Claiming that it's a location towards a 4th dimensional space is very unlikely, given how rare this term is used to represent higher dimensions in media, especially Japan. You can't claim that it's the objective purely because it's the primary definition. That would only hold true in real life, where faster than light travel is impossible. In fiction, that changes.

Issue 3

This one is short, but important irregardless. The argument uses the previously mentioned video as an example of the reason why the floor shifts. However, this clearly isn't in relation to dimensions. Within the same level, you can see various droplets bring back the floor upon touching it. Something that doesn't happen within the whole 4D objects interacting with 3D objects, they don't make them visible like that.

“	Matter Splatter Galaxy is in constant flux, disappearing and reappearing as balls of mass are tossed back and forth	„
	~ Prima

We have an official explanation that the location just so happens to disappear on its own, with balls of mass also bringing it back. Effectively recreating itself. Despite using its English name, the original argument is that of a fan explanation of assuming it's using the original hyperspace definition. If we take into account that it's not saying this, the explanation here is a more valid and reliable. The same people here also use Prima for other sources of the same guide, so this happens to be a double-edged sword for them irregardless.

Flipside

Flipside is a town that's stated to be no dimension, being disconnected from all dimensions and is in between them. Thus meaning that Flipside itself is dimensionless, and thus is beyond all dimensions as a whole. With the note that dimension in this case refers to to mathematical dimensions.

“	Of course, our fair Flipside is in no dimension at all! No! It is BETWEEN dimensions!	„
	~ Merlon

Issue 1

Taking this at face value, if Flipside truly were dimensionless, it would not be beyond all dimensions. Quite the opposite. If Flipside was not a dimension, there's no reason to claim it would be beyond it. Why would lacking dimension mean you transcend it? It would not, that's a contradictory claim. You do not transcend something you're lacking as a whole.

Issue 2

Flipside is not beyond dimensions. It's been established that it's actually between them. If it's in-between dimensions, it's not beyond it, it's just connected to other dimensions. This is further established when Flipside is noted to take dimensional energy to transport you to them with the Dimensional Doors.

“	So yeah, Flipside is a town between dimensions, created by the Ancients. You can open up paths to many worlds from here, as the Ancients designed it. And you've seen the white tower in the middle of Flipside, right? It controls the flow of dimensional energy, so it can beam people to worlds.	„
	~ Garson

Issue 3

Flipside does not lack dimensions. The very fact that you can use Flip, and ability to shift between dimensions, means that a spatial dimension exists. If it didn't, Mario would not be able to use this ability. In addition to this, it's directly stated that Flipside contains space.

“	So Flipside's convenient, created by Ancients in a space between dimensions.	„
	~ Carson

A dimensionless location would be lacking space, yet they clearly established there is a space within it. Disproving the overall argument.

Conclusion

None of the current arguments for tier 1 hold up and most likely never will. They all have issues that can very easily be used. Even when assuming the argument is correct, their definitions of a dimension is not what they think. Of course, there are more arguments. Ones such as Plato's book, Dream Depot, Woah Zone, Cutout, and others. But these are either not being used as often or have the same overall issues as to how they think dimensions work. Some of these are very minor. Maybe later I'll decide to touch on these older arguments, but for now these are the mains ones being used. Again, you may contact me of you'd like to talk about any of these with me. Tier 1 Mario, get out.