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User:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sandbox: Difference between revisions

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MrWarnerTheGreat
MrWarnerTheGreat (talk | contribs) (Undo revision 185840 by MrWarnerTheGreat (talk))
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<tabber>
"Okay but what is that supposed to mean? How can unlimited power be too high to scale to if you can't even say what Tier it equates to? You use the statement of unlimited power to justify the Emeralds' AP, but all you linked were planetary feats from all 7 Emeralds. How does any of this logically correlate to anything?"
|-|Innate Abilities=
 
{{#tag:tabber|
 
{{!}}-{{!}}Powers=
 
[[Superhuman Physical Characteristics]], [[Magic|Divine Magic]], [[Weapon Mastery]] (Has mastered several classes of weapons and obtained hundreds of weapons over his various journeys and battles), [[Vehicular Mastery]] (Can pilot and master various vehicles such as the Lightning Chariot upon just getting them), [[Telepathy]], [[Clairvoyance]], and [[Cosmic Awareness]], ([https://youtu.be/2mDyxziT6xw?t=10m18s All divine beings can] [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk?t=7m51s telepathically communicate between each other] and [https://youtu.be/Av4cP-mAnR4?t=7m05s use their conversations to locate the other's whereabouts regardless of where they are]. [https://youtu.be/DTgJTeiIhsQ?t=22m20s Dark Pit could hear the destruction of Hades' heart from the Underworld and tracked down Pit while he was inside Hades]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m22s Hades' stomach is an entirely separate space-time continuum from the Underworld]. [https://youtu.be/VNWVUs509sw?t=9m50s Can sense the presence of other beings even when they're not there]), [[Martial Arts|Hand-to-Hand Proficiency]], [[Acrobatics]] and Limited [[Attack Reflection]] (Can perform dodge maneuvers such as rolls, somersaults, and other acrobatic stunts which can [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=0m55s deflect projectiles off Pit if timed correctly]), Limited [[Invulnerability]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=3m00s Pit can temporarily enter a state of invulnerability after being hit] [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m54s for roughly one second]), [[Stealth Mastery|Stealth Proficiency]] ([http://imgur.com/gallery/TNhEtBG Escaped the Underworld Prison] while the guard numbers were low), [[Social Influencing]] ([https://youtu.be/GLQ-2iU_P_A?t=2m14s Can haggle with various shopkeepers to lower the price of their products for Pit]. Pit's rally cry [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m41s encourages his foes to support his efforts]), [[Breaking the Fourth Wall]] (Is aware of [[The Player (Nintendo)|The Player]] and their world, along with [https://youtu.be/mgJMNl5FTwk referencing other Nintendo franchises like] [[Metroid (Verse)|Metroid]]), [[Cartoon Physics]], [[Regeneration]] (Low, potentially Low-Godly to Mid-Godly. [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=9m56s Pit regrew his hair and healed his bruises from Zeus' lightning bolt by the time he entered the next room]. Potentially scales to the lower-leveled gods such as Pandora), [[Transmutation]] ([https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=4m30s Killed enemies are turned into hearts after being defeated]), [[Divine Protection]], [[Immortality]], and [[Blessed]] (Type 1, 4, 6, and 8. Pit, along with other angels and gods, [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk?t=1m39s doesn't age without supernatural influence and views hundreds of years as a short timeframe]. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KeTkoQXPsw&t=801 If Pit dies, Palutena will resurrect him shortly afterwards]. Him and Palutena have even [https://youtu.be/OS74P36Ty0M?t=4m13s referenced] [https://youtu.be/3ImJbjla2bE?t=6m13s several of his deaths in the past] including from the original Kid Icarus game [http://imgur.com/gallery/2u5x1gE where Palutena was captured and petrified]. [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=20m32s Can survive catching on fire] and still persist even after his wings are burned off. [[Dark Pit]] [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=12m46s refers to him and Pit as two sides of the same coin]. When Pit burnt his wings off and was completely unconscious, [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=1m13s he was miraculously able to persist] despite [https://youtu.be/jRVyxhZEIFo?t=2m20s Palutena describing this scenario as being fatal beyond her control], implying Pit and Dark Pit's connection kept the two alive long enough to revive Pit), [[Time Travel]], [[Time Manipulation]], and [[Save and Load]] (Type 2, 3, and 4. Can save and load to return at any previous events similarly to [[Mario|other Nintendo]] [[Ness|characters]]. Check notes for further elaboration), [[Self-Sustenance]] (Type 1. [https://youtu.be/OS74P36Ty0M?t=3m37s Can breathe in space]), [[Sheer Will]], [[Possession]], and [[Empowerment]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m23s Through willpower alone], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m23s Pit can possess another's body] [https://youtu.be/l4_P_vHtb5c?t=14m29s and grant them his divine powers]. Pit can enter [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Crisis_Recovery Crisis Mode] [https://youtu.be/U0kmGZQWa_M?t=7m16s which allows him to persist even after having no health and eventually restore it]), [[Extrasensory Perception]], [[Non-Physical Interaction]], and [[Intangibility|Lower-Dimensional Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/fER7DRKitFM Can see and use grind rails while nobody else can]. [https://youtu.be/hrgV5HjREfE?t=8m14s Can interact with and kill Sinistews], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1891 which are beings who reside in a one-dimensional universe]. [https://youtu.be/LnTF61sslIE?t=8m50s Could sense Ness' PSI energy]), [[Acausality|Acausality Negation]] (Type 3. [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=17m40s Killed the Chaos Kin] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m06s whose origins resides in the Chaos Vortex, a dimension with irregular laws and physics]), [[Regeneration|Regeneration Negation]], [[Resurrection|Resurrection Negation]], and [[Immortality|Immortality Negation]], and [[Soul Manipulation]] (Type 3, possibly 4, 6, and 7. Low-Godly. [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=19m54s Can kill Hewdraw], [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=4m57s whose head can live despite lacking a body and even] [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=17m37s regenerate their entire body back in a short timeframe]. Can kill Underworld troops, who are [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=6m31s made from souls effectively destroying the soul in the process] and characters like [[Medusa (Kid Icarus)|Medusa]] and Pandora. The latter was able to [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=10m03s resurrect herself after being absorbed by Dark Pit]. Medusa also implied that after [[Dark Pit]] [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=5m59s absorbed her powers, she could no longer resurrect Pandora]), [[Reactive Adaptation]] ([http://imgur.com/gallery/itTHWS9 Pit grows stronger through the more enemies he fights, making his powers stronger as well], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=6m26s can fight previous bosses] [https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=2m41s without the aid of all three Sacred Treasures] [https://youtu.be/Gn6oaVzFSJE?t=13m40s when he needed them prior]. Hades noted how [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=0m47s 8-Bit Pit was no match for the current Pit]. [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Monoeye Pit went from having his stamina and power drained by Monoeyes to being too divine for them to even touch]), [[Telekinesis]] (Can [https://youtu.be/yUaLd7sL40Q telekinetically command the Guardian Orbitars] and Protective Crystals, which [http://imgur.com/gallery/IdQR5Vq circle Pit's body] [https://youtu.be/-P--ngygnfI?t21m08s even without the need to summon or control them]. Scales to [[Palutena]] and [[Poseidon (Kid Icarus)|Poseidon]]), [[Summoning]] ([https://youtu.be/zk4JsKWzzZc?t=6m06s Can summon Palutena's troops] [https://youtu.be/VNWVUs509sw?t=1m58s and the Great Sacred Treasure on him]. [https://youtu.be/8bCwBTp9e_M?t=6m34s Can also summon any of his weapons] [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=8m43s mid-battle to him])
>Unlimited power in this context is something far greater than what the cast can match through their own power. We obviously aren't saying that the Chaos Emeralds are truly unlimited in power, it's the characters explaining the sheer gap in power between themselves and the Chaos Emeralds.
{{!}}-{{!}}Resistances=
 
[[Resistance]] to [[Magic]], [[Heat Manipulation|Extreme Heats]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/dz8L-_MpzSM?t=1m21s Can fight in the Underworld] [https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=7m06s and inside Volcanoes]. Can endure hits from the Earthmaul [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=3m43s which uses a sun replica as the main weapon]), [[Cold Manipulation|Extreme Colds]] ([https://youtu.be/1SHwf1sc_ZQ?t=35m38s Can traverse in the tundra] and [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=6m58s parts of the Underworld where it's cold]), [[Petrification]] ([https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=18m16s Despite Pit originally needing to use the Mirror Shield] [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=12m18s to defend himself from] [https://youtu.be/Zez4QlSTE_Q Medusa's petrification], [https://youtu.be/5dPBU0dI7iY?t=31m43s he has since gained a complete immunity]), [[Transmutation]] ([https://youtu.be/Eou94986ZoY?t=7m21s Doesn't turn into hearts when defeated by opponents like the] [[Fighter (Kid Icarus)|Fighters]]), [[Life Manipulation|Life Force Absorption]] and [[Paralysis Inducement]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=25m28s Is too divine to have his life force absorbed and is no longer paralyzed when hit by Monoeyes]), [[Status Effect Inducement]], [[Poison Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=4m40s Can quickly dispel poisonous effects]), [[Fire Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=6m02s Can recover from being scorched by lava in a short period]. Tanks attacks from Pyrrhon [https://youtu.be/_KovW6T_z10?t=4m57s who is the Sun God]), [[Electricity Manipulation]] (Can tank lightning bolts from both [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=9m56s Zeus and] [https://youtu.be/wjaKAHF3Zyc?t=19m06s Phosphora]), [[Ice Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/ZkmNi-WvtAQ?t=14m02s Can break out of being frozen solid]),  [[Darkness Manipulation]], [[Curse Manipulation]] and [[Corruption]] (The [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m38s Gaol Blade is made from the same curse that] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=3m54s corrupted Lord Gaol into a slave of evil], which can't corrupt Pit even when being struck), [[Death Manipulation]] (Can survive being struck by the Thanatos Staff. As Thanatos is the god of death and the weapon is made after him [Even having some of his signature attacks], it should have similar attributes to his being), [[Chaos Manipulation|Calamity Manipulation]] (Can survive being struck by the Pandora Claws [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=7m58s fire projectiles made of Pandora's essences that blocks]. Given the Pandora Claws are designed around Pandora, the goddess of Calamity, and uses her form as the main ammunition, it should share her attributes), [[Nothingness Manipulation]] and [[Soul Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1785 Despite the Reaper's scythe being capable of ripping out the victim's soul, this does not work on Pit]. [[Hades (Kid Icarus)|Hades]] [https://youtu.be/DTgJTeiIhsQ?t=951 can render a soul nonexistent when he eats it, which had no effect on Pit]. [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=5m22s Souls in Kid Icarus are just another material that lacks any personality]. When Pit was sealed in a ring, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m45s his body lacked a soul and was completely mindless, but still able to fight]. [http://imgur.com/gallery/paQsuAy The Collin had their soul removed by Medusa but could still fight for Angel Land]), [[Mind Manipulation]] and [[Possession]] (Underworld troops such as [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2242 Cacaws attack with a piercing noise that damages the brain, which does regular physical damage to Pit]. [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=19m39s The Aurum Brain], [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=19m06s which had previously hacked and mind controlled Pyrrhon], was unable to take control over Pit despite him [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=5m55s directly being inside the Aurum Brain and attacking it]), [[BFR]] and [[Spatial Manipulation]] (Type 2 and 3. [https://youtu.be/hrgV5HjREfE?t=8m14s Can escape the Sinistew's pot], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1891 which is a one-dimensional universe]), [[Law Manipulation]] and [[Physics Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m06s Despite the Chaos Vortex not being governed by the physical laws of the regular universe], [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=1m56s Pit is unaffected by the lack of those laws]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s Can survive within a black hole with no major consequences]), [[Space-Time Manipulation]] and [[Pain Manipulation|Immense Pain Tolerance]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m41s The Chomp Trap bends both space and time], [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s inducing immense pain to the target] which Pit can power through. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s Can survive within a black hole with no repercussions]. Pit regularly survives fatal injuries thanks to Crisis Mode), [[One Hit Kill]] (Before ever dying, Pit can enter [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Crisis_Recovery Crisis Mode], [https://youtu.be/U0kmGZQWa_M?t=7m16s preventing him from being one-shotted until hit again in time])
 
}}
 
|-|Equipment=
"Except it does. Sonic & co. have fought & won against enemies powered by Emeralds, with or without striking their weak spots https://youtu.be/kENJWrdQ0L8?t=134 (Silver Sonic fight) https://youtu.be/mgPc609IMIU?t=870 (Eggmobile fight). Just swap "infinite power" for "unlimited power" & it describes what you're trying to justify."
[[Instinctive Reaction]] ([https://imgur.com/a/DcBEnoC Will automatically fly away or out of hazards with the Angel's Feather]. The Dodge Token allows one to [https://youtu.be/qx6DApxtG2Q?t=8m36s dodge any incoming attacks automatically]), [[Healing]] and [[Restoration]] ([https://imgur.com/gallery/nsWRXO9 Can restore his health and strength during battle, and even after dying, to continue fighting]), [[Transmutation]] and Minor [[Power Nullification]] (Can use the Harp to [https://imgur.com/a/ZHo1H2D turn anything on screen into a mallet for Pit to collect]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m19s The Eggplant] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m24s and Tempura Bomb] [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s transforms the opponent into an Eggplant and/or Tempura with legs], [https://youtu.be/xMSX1j8qLfU?t=6m18s rendering them defenseless] [https://youtu.be/Hm1kUz_Ia2Y?t=5m31s and far weaker than before]), [[Curtain Fire]], [[Unlimited Ammo]] (All weapons run on either a [https://youtu.be/quvBx4Xvnfc renewable] [https://youtu.be/Mon4moiYRqI?t=5m36s source], or unlimited energy), [[Extended Blade Range]] (Weapon classes such as the blades can [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=0m23s create an energy-like extension for the weapon which act as a method for close quarters combat]), [[Intangibility|Intangible Attacks]] and [[Durability Negation]] (Various weapons, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2m09s most notably the clubs], [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=1m03s can fire projectiles that pass through objects and enemies]), [[Poison Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=1m35s Can inflict Poison onto opponents with the Viper Blade] [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=6m02s and Scorpio Staff], which can poison the dead. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m41s The Poison Cloud bomb creates a] [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=7m11s toxic mist that damages those who step near or in it]. [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=11m20s Can poison opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Poison Card]), [[Fire Manipulation]] (Pit's arrows are [https://imgur.com/gallery/IdQR5Vq lit on fire which can do extra damage]. Various weapons such as the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=6m12s Wolf Claws], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=18m53s Burning Palm], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=22m36s Twinbellows Cannon], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=25m23s Phoenix Arm] [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=0m40s set foes ablaze with their attacks]. [https://youtu.be/cO7YE5Fx8s4?t=5m58s Can ignite opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Flame Card]), [[Heat Manipulation]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] (The Optical Blade is stated to be [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=13m57s hot enough to melt through steel] [[https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=4m28s The blade's melee strikes even reference Star Wars' light sabers]]. The EarthMaul club uses a [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=3m43s sun replicate to damage foes]), [[Air Manipulation]] and [[Weather Manipulation]] (The Samurai Blade creates [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=4m48s gusts of sharp wind that cut through opponents]. The Ore Club creates [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=0m13s tornados with its swings]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m27s The Cyclone throwable] [https://youtu.be/d3QDkAITT2k?t=8m52s creates a tornado, leaving the opponent vulnerable to attacks]), [[Water Manipulation]] and [[Ice Manipulation]] (Baring the sign of Aquarius, the Aquarius blade uses [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m16s pressurized water to cut through foes with little effort]. Being hit by the blade itself [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=6m43s freezes the opponent]. The Icy Aura [https://youtu.be/Mon4moiYRqI?t=8m46s envelopes the user in an icy mist that freezes anyone who gets too close]. [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=20m11s Can freeze opponents on hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with an Ice Card]), [[Darkness Manipulation]], [[Curse Manipulation]] and [[Corruption]] (The [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m38s Gaol Blade is made from the same curse that] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=3m54s corrupted Lord Gaol into a slave of evil] and can directly fire [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=8m30s cursed shots which leave an effect on enemies struck by it]), Limited [[Spatial  Manipulation]] (The Ancient Staff's charged shots [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=3m18s linger within the air and inverts space around it]), [[Plant Manipulation]] (The Rose Staff fires [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=1m37s vines and roses as projectiles at opponents]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m48s The Demon Vine] [https://youtu.be/1dh07h5ug5c?t=15m53s creates a small area of vines which damage and barricade opponents]), [[Necromancy]], [[Animal Manipulation]], and [[Death Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=8m11s Can summon giant skulls engulfed in cursed energy and flames] along with [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=8m36s bats with the Thanatos staff]. As Thanatos is the god of death and the weapon is made after him [Even having some of his signature attacks], it should have similar attributes to his being), [[Invisibility]] and [[Sound Manipulation|Sound Nullification]] ([https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=2m48s The Stealth Claw shots are completely invisible] which are even invisible to characters with [[Enhanced Senses]]. The wearer of the Stealth Claws gains silent movement when attacking), [[Irreversible Damage]] (The Raptor Claws' attacks are so brutal, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=16m42s that wounds inflicted by it refuse to heal]), [[Light Manipulation]] (Various weapons produce light including the [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=6m26s Beam Claws]), [[Forcefield Creation|Barrier Creation]], [[Attack Reflection]], and [[Chaos Manipulation|Calamity Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/iIzhLS0Cfkc?t=6m25s The Virgo Palm can create large black hole-like barriers], and the Guardian Orbitars can manifest [https://youtu.be/qx6DApxtG2Q?t=10m25s large shields that can block] and [https://youtu.be/NTQXbz5T9Bo?t=4m32s counter incoming attacks]. The Pandora Claws can [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=8m03s create a barrier made of Pandora's essences that blocks incoming projectiles]. Given the Pandora Claws are designed around Pandora, the goddess of Calamity, and uses her form as the main ammunition, it should share her attributes), [[Electricity Manipulation]] and [[Paralysis Inducement]] (Various weapons such as the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=18m41s Phosphora Bow], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=20m57s Halo Club], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=22m09s Dynamo Cannon], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=23m01s Shock Orbitars], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=24m23s Electroshock Arm] [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m30s electrocute and paralyze opponents]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m49s Can shock opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Paralysis Card]), [[Durability Negation]] and [[Summoning]] ([https://youtu.be/iIzhLS0Cfkc?t=8m33s The Reaper Palm can summon Reapettes] and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=20m00s cuts the opponent's health in half], regardless of their physical stats. [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=15m47s Can summon Centurions with the Centurion Assist]), [[Creation]] and [[Earth Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=2m05s Can create chunks of buildings as projectiles with the Skyscraper Club]. The Cragalanche Cannon fires [https://youtu.be/r1eEAehxjTE?t=8m26s boulders and meteorites at the opponents]), [[Metal Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=6m14s Can create large metal projectiles with the Black Club]), [[Petrification]] ([https://youtu.be/651RDNV-tKg?t=1m05s The Medusa Head fires eye beams that petrify anyone hit]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m17s Can petrify opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Stone Card]), [[Invulnerability]] (Type 2. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m17s The Power-Up Drop] [https://youtu.be/hxIi8YhfEmI?t=9m58s grants the user complete invulnerability for a brief period of time]), [[Size Manipulation]] (The Shrinky Bean [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=6m59s decreases the user's size and increases their evasion]. [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/File:Giant_Marker_Effect.png Can increase the opponent's size], making them an easier and slower target with the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m49s Giant Maker]), [[BFR]], [[Space-Time Manipulation]], and [[Pain Manipulation]] (Type 2. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m41s The Chomp Trap bends space and time and] [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s warps the opponent into a dimension of pain]), [[Velocity Manipulation|Movement Negation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m46s Can trap opponents in a Capture Circle], [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s nullifying their movement])
 
|-|Goddess Powers and Boons=
 
Limited [[Flight]] ([https://youtu.be/CS-dbFyi3L0?t=3m50s Can fly for five minutes with the Power of Flight before Pit's wings begin to burn up]), [[Information Analysis]] (Palutena can provide [https://youtu.be/Y0JwNB_ckvg?t=0m12s information to Pit on his opponents mid-combat]. Due to the nature of Kid Icarus as a franchise, Palutena has shown a great deal of knowledge on [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk other Nintendo verses such as] [[Metroid (Verse)|Metroid]], [[Super Mario Bros.]], and [[The Legend of Zelda]]), [[Law Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2m01s The Fiend's Cauldron can adjust the difficulty of a chapter]. This can make fights so easy that the enemy [https://youtu.be/0Nwg0vFVyHo?t=9m27s outright refuses to attack back]. Each time Pit dies, the Fiend's Cauldron [https://youtu.be/0Nwg0vFVyHo?t=8m47s loses some hearts, automatically adjusting the difficulty of a level]), [[Teleportation]] and [[Dimensional Travel]] (Palutena can [https://youtu.be/CS-dbFyi3L0?t=8m33s teleport Pit in and out of battle], along with [https://youtu.be/XnsC8L9T6zU?t=4m26s teleport him back after being incapacitated]. Pit can [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m34s manually teleport himself with the Warp power-up]), Enhanced [[Clairvoyance]], [[Precognition]], and [[Radar Sensing]] (Type 1. By looking through Pit's laurel crown, Palutena can [https://youtu.be/2mDyxziT6xw?t=8m19s divine his surroundings revealing hidden objects and opponent]. Palutena can equip a [https://youtu.be/9sXm0sCJcqo?t=9m42s green tracking arrow which points to Pit's objective]), [[Fragrance Manipulation]] and Limited [[Empathic Manipulation]] (Palutena has a [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=11m39s Monster Pheromone which attracts monsters with its powerful sent when used on a particular person or object]), [[Purification]] and [[Power Nullification|Power Reversion]] (Within a short time period, Palutena can remove [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s permanent and lethal status ailments from Pit]), [[Chain Manipulation]], [[Velocity Manipulation]], and [[Power Nullification]] ([https://youtu.be/Gn6oaVzFSJE?t=15m00s Can chain down opponents preventing them from moving or teleporting away]), [[Summoning]] and [[Creation]] (Palutena can summon [https://youtu.be/fER7DRKitFM Grind Rails that only Pit see], along with various other items and vehicles), [[Healing]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=42m37s Palutena can grant food and other healables for Pit on his journey] [https://youtu.be/9sXm0sCJcqo?t=9m42s even when her powers are being blocked off by other gods]. [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=12m10s Can quickly heal when in a pinch with the Health Recovery Power]), [[Statistics Amplification]] (Various Power-ups can increase the user's physical stats such as Super Speed, [https://youtu.be/i_20LeBSgXU?t=1m19s which allows the user to blitz their opponents] and the Super Armor Power-up which [https://youtu.be/I-B343We-UM?t=2m49s slightly increases the user's durability]), [[Transformation]] and [[Explosion Manipulation]] (Can transform into an [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m12s explosive projectile with the Angelic Missile]. [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m0s Can summon an explosive flame with the Explosive Flame Power-up], and a [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=11m52s landmine with the Land Mine Power-up]), [[Transmutation]] and Minor [[Power Nullification]] (The Idol Transformation Power-up [https://youtu.be/v0_sGRE5lqE?t=12m07s turns enemies into idols for Pit to collect]. The Eggplant and Tempura Attack [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s transforms the opponent into an Eggplant and/or Tempura with legs], [https://youtu.be/xMSX1j8qLfU?t=6m18s rendering them defenseless] [https://youtu.be/Hm1kUz_Ia2Y?t=5m31s and far weaker than before]), [[Energy Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/wjaKAHF3Zyc?t=19m37s The Mega Laser Power-up fires a massive laser in a single direction]), [[Black Hole Creation]] (The Black Hole Power-up creates a [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s black hole pulling anyone nearby to its epicenter]), [[Summoning]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] (Summons shooting starts to [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=23m16s rain on opponents with the Meteor Shower Power-up]), [[Forcefield Creation]] and [[Attack Reflection]] (The Reflect Barrier Power-up [https://youtu.be/rKED69WAdGA?t=4m49s creates a barrier that blocks] [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m04s and reflects all incoming attacks]), [[Light Manipulation]] (Can summon a [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=1m59s light from the heavens that damages all nearby opponents with the Heavenly Light Power-up]), [[Self-Destruction]] (Spite allows the user to convert their remaining health into a [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Spite powerful explosion to damage all nearby opponents]), [[Homing Attack]] and [[Information Analysis]] (Autoreticle, Homing Boost, and Weak-Point Reticle Power-ups [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m12s lock on], [https://youtu.be/YVIriL-0UKg?t=0m49s home in more efficiently], and analyze weak points on opponents), [[Power Modification]] (Quick Charge, when used, [https://youtu.be/emcB2_YdoeI?t=1m18s charges Pit's charged attacks far faster] and Energy Charge [https://youtu.be/-2CSftFoOPI?t=1m55s passively builds up energy to amplify the user's attacks]), [[Intangibility|Intangible Attacks]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m59s Slip Shot makes Pit's attacks intangible and able to slip through walls]), [[Invisibility|Invisible Attacks]] (Invisible Shots makes [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m59s all of Pit's shots invisible] even to characters with [[Enhanced Senses]]), [[Poison Manipulation]] (Poison Attack makes [https://youtu.be/1Wfm9Rm2ne8?t=2m44s all of Pit's attacks inflict poison on the opponent]), [[Paralysis Inducement]] (Paralysis Attack makes [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=7m21s  all of Pit's attacks] [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m49s inflict paralysis on the opponent]), [[Petrification]], [[Velocity Manipulation]] and [[Vibration Manipulation|Shockwave Generation]] ([https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Shake_Attack Shake and] [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Spin_Attack Spin Attack] make all of Pit's attacks inflict shake and spin on the opponent), [[Mind Manipulation]] (Confuse Attack makes [https://youtu.be/3ImJbjla2bE?t=14m37s all of Pit's attacks inflict confused on the opponent]), [[Fire Manipulation]] (Fire Attack makes [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=8m56s all of Pit's attacks inflict fire on the opponent]), [[Ice Manipulation]] (Freeze Attack makes [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=20m11s all of Pit's attacks inflict freeze on the opponent]), [[Death Manipulation]] (Instant Death Attack makes [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Death_Attack all of Pit's attack instantly kill the opponent]), [[Power Absorption]] (Power Thief can [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Thief steal an opponent's powers, making them unable to use them and allowing the user to use them]), [[Reactive Power Level]] ([https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Libra_Sponge Libra Sponge increases the user's strength when they take attacks]), [[Darkness Manipulation]] and [[Perception Manipulation]] (Darkness creates a [https://youtu.be/651RDNV-tKg?t=2m27s pitch black dome that blinds all opponents within it]), [[Power Nullification|Power Disruption]] (Interference creates a beacon that [https://youtu.be/uBqy8ZQJggo?t=10m17s disrupts the opponent's ability to use powers and see the target's stats]), [[Disease Manipulation]], [[Statistics Reduction]], and [[Paralysis Inducement]] (The Virus Power-up reduces the opponent's [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m23s maximum health and paralyzes them]), [[Invulnerability]] (The Brief Invulnerability Power-up allows the user to [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=9m30s briefly remain immune to all damage]. The Celestial Firework [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=3m0s makes the user temporarily invulnerable while using it]), [[Density Manipulation]] (Lightweight increases Pit's speed by [https://youtu.be/kkrQKZ1Z3-w?t=1m47s decreasing his weight, making him easier to damage and launch]), [[Invisibility]] and [[Intangibility]] ([https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m29s The Transparency and Playing Dead Power-ups allow the user to become completely invisible and intangible for a fixed amount of time]), [[Precognition|Analytical Prediction]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m53s Can automatically counter attacks before being hit]), [[Vacuum Manipulation]] (Item Vacuum [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m52s teleports and pulls in items on the field]), [[Duplication]] (Double Item [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m16s doubles the items Pit picks up in battle]), [[Sound Manipulation]] (Can change the theme of the level with Fortune's Jukebox)
 
</tabber>
>Even agreeing that they fought the source they consider superior to themselves, this still doesn't match with the example you gave due to the statement in question coming much later within the series. Also, the Silver Sonic and Eggman fight can be written off as inconsistencies given what is later established with Chaos Emeralds.
----
 
{{Tab2|maintext=The Katayanagi Twins|link1=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi|tab1=Comicbook|link2=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi (Movie)|tab2=Movie|link3=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi (Video Game)|tab3=Video Game|link4=Todd Ingram (Composite)|tab4=Composite}}
 
<tabber>
 
|-|Kyle=
"Ignoring the fact that I couldn't find anything relevant on that page (it's too heckin big, why didn't you just tell me where to look or screenshot it?), that doesn't make sense. If you absorb a portion of someone's power, you scale to that portion."
[[File:Kyle K. Render SP.png|thumb|385px]]
 
{{Quote|I wager she's packing her bags right now.|Kyle to [[Scott Pilgrim]]}}
 
|-|Ken=
 
[[File:Ken K. Render SP.png|thumb|385px]]
>Except you wouldn't be able to quantify said portion of power without knowing its peak and having an exact number of what you're taking from it. For cases where you absorb X portion of source, you merely downscale from its power by an unquantifiable degree.
{{Quote|You think she'd do this for you?|Ken to [[Scott Pilgrim]]}}
 
</tabber>
 
{{Quote|Double Hurrican Kick!|Kyle and Ken's signature technique}}
 
==Background==
Also for the Ness page, just go to Post-Magicant key and read the justification for 2-A.
 
 
 
"I mean if you want, we can go back to using the 8-A feat, I'm more than okay with that, and I'll even calc the Sonic Heroes feat at that point too since I wouldn't be surprised if it gets 8-A or higher."
 
 
 
>I'll go ahead and concede to the mountain level stuff since I really don't care about that and frankly never agreed with it. I'm okay with using 8-A to 7-C based on the Heroes feat you sent [https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sonic_hates_Eggman_a_little_too_much which I calculated here].
 
 
 
"Right, so the game talking about space-time continuums & parallel universes being at stake, would suddenly shift gears & start talking about planetary destruction. Yeah, that makes sense from a "narrative" standpoint, doesn't it? Also the worlds wouldn't be erased by the Emeralds coexisting, the worlds would be erased by the worlds coexisting."
 
 
 
>In this sense, yes. World is consistently a term used by Eggman in reference to the planet as well, which he focuses his goals on to conquer and turn into Eggman Land.
 
 
 
"Again, the entire game is focused on space-time continuums & parallel universes, for them to suddenly switch gears to planet level betrays the very narrative you hold in such high regard."
 
 
 
>Even if I am to concede to "world" meaning universe in this context, your particular statement does not support Eggman and Nega creating an entire separate universe-sized place for their liking, but instead a place existing separate from both universes; that's not evidence for universe-sized creation.
 
 
 
"... how tho? That's like saying a shield or plate armor is less durable than human flesh. You guard your weak spot with something stronger than your weak spot. Also you ignored my point about his actual body under the armor, so this doesn't change my argument."
 
 
 
>Yes, but this armor literally has no reason to scale to Solaris' own AP to begin with since it's protecting a spot with no defined durability, thus not upscaling from anything. Even though it could be argued to be stronger than Solaris' core, it's not because it's superior to it, it's just that the core is a metaphysical consciousness that can't have a physical tier to begin with, completely different to armor for a human being.
 
 
 
"So his invulnerability is Low 2-B, but the Emeralds aren't. Right, because that's logic."
 
 
 
>Yes, you can have hax that are greater than your AP value in terms of tier value, it's actually not that shocking. We literally have character here with [[Scott Pilgrim|multiverse level abilities]] while also being on a far smaller physical scale than said abilities.
 
 
 
"Also Silver didn't "physically reflect the attacks", he used his Psychokinesis, which was amped by the Emeralds. Also, this is why I view Invulnerability as an NLF. If he can't survive higher level attacks, then he's not invulnerable, that's just the limit of what he can withstand, in other words, his DURABILITY. Invulnerability isn't real, it's just a durability amp. Also what does a nuke have to do with this?"
 
 
 
>That ironically makes your case worse since redirecting an attack via telekinesis can't be measured in AP and would be lifting strength at best. Also, if you're going to complain so much about invulnerability, make a CRT for it instead of explaining why it's bad here.
 
 
 
"Yeah but it wouldn't leave anything alive intact."
 
 
 
>Not necessarily. Take the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, most organisms didn't permanently die off, but simply evolved into modern day animals such as most species of birds. Further, Chaos uses water to destroy the surface, I'm pretty sure most sea life wouldn't be massively affected at the very moment of destruction.
 
 
 
"... that's not a planet. That's the Black Comet, & it's not even city-sized."
 
 
 
>Forgive me for the lack of context, I seem to have left out a crucial piece of supporting text. I was essentially comparing this feat to the one in [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdUm?t=19m38s Sonic Adventure 2 where Sonic and Shadow] [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdU?t=1m35s needed to use Chaos Control to stop a planetary threat]. Black Doom's example is essentially a greater version of that with an amp needing to be used.
 
 
 
"I watched the video you linked, Eggman wasn't surprised at all. Plus, the Emeralds didn't have any stronger showings at that time, so if he WAS surprised, it wouldn't debunk future showings, because Eggman isn't aware of any stronger feats. (Also you linked me Gaia Colossus for some reason)"
 
 
 
>My bad, I accidentally sent the wrong scan. [https://youtu.be/NbhxkGJaOHU?t=12m55s Here's what I meant to send]. Assuming you plan to use the refute that Eggman hadn't seen planetary power up to that point, Sonic Adventure 1 already establishes the characters as planetary threats, so I wouldn't really fall back on Eggman not knowing its true potential.
 
 
 
"Sonic has struggled against a grand total of 1 Tier 5 threat. No showing has ever implied much, if any struggle on Super Sonic's part besides Dark Gaia. As for Eggman, that's fine, I'll accept it."
 
 
 
>Add the one in Sonic Adventures 2 to the list since that was also a planetary feat that required both Sonic and Shadow to use Chaos Control and supposedly [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdU?t=20m06s killing Shadow via energy exhaustion].

Revision as of 21:07, 7 February 2022

"Okay but what is that supposed to mean? How can unlimited power be too high to scale to if you can't even say what Tier it equates to? You use the statement of unlimited power to justify the Emeralds' AP, but all you linked were planetary feats from all 7 Emeralds. How does any of this logically correlate to anything?"


>Unlimited power in this context is something far greater than what the cast can match through their own power. We obviously aren't saying that the Chaos Emeralds are truly unlimited in power, it's the characters explaining the sheer gap in power between themselves and the Chaos Emeralds.


"Except it does. Sonic & co. have fought & won against enemies powered by Emeralds, with or without striking their weak spots https://youtu.be/kENJWrdQ0L8?t=134 (Silver Sonic fight) https://youtu.be/mgPc609IMIU?t=870 (Eggmobile fight). Just swap "infinite power" for "unlimited power" & it describes what you're trying to justify."


>Even agreeing that they fought the source they consider superior to themselves, this still doesn't match with the example you gave due to the statement in question coming much later within the series. Also, the Silver Sonic and Eggman fight can be written off as inconsistencies given what is later established with Chaos Emeralds.


"Ignoring the fact that I couldn't find anything relevant on that page (it's too heckin big, why didn't you just tell me where to look or screenshot it?), that doesn't make sense. If you absorb a portion of someone's power, you scale to that portion."


>Except you wouldn't be able to quantify said portion of power without knowing its peak and having an exact number of what you're taking from it. For cases where you absorb X portion of source, you merely downscale from its power by an unquantifiable degree.


Also for the Ness page, just go to Post-Magicant key and read the justification for 2-A.


"I mean if you want, we can go back to using the 8-A feat, I'm more than okay with that, and I'll even calc the Sonic Heroes feat at that point too since I wouldn't be surprised if it gets 8-A or higher."


>I'll go ahead and concede to the mountain level stuff since I really don't care about that and frankly never agreed with it. I'm okay with using 8-A to 7-C based on the Heroes feat you sent which I calculated here.


"Right, so the game talking about space-time continuums & parallel universes being at stake, would suddenly shift gears & start talking about planetary destruction. Yeah, that makes sense from a "narrative" standpoint, doesn't it? Also the worlds wouldn't be erased by the Emeralds coexisting, the worlds would be erased by the worlds coexisting."


>In this sense, yes. World is consistently a term used by Eggman in reference to the planet as well, which he focuses his goals on to conquer and turn into Eggman Land.


"Again, the entire game is focused on space-time continuums & parallel universes, for them to suddenly switch gears to planet level betrays the very narrative you hold in such high regard."


>Even if I am to concede to "world" meaning universe in this context, your particular statement does not support Eggman and Nega creating an entire separate universe-sized place for their liking, but instead a place existing separate from both universes; that's not evidence for universe-sized creation.


"... how tho? That's like saying a shield or plate armor is less durable than human flesh. You guard your weak spot with something stronger than your weak spot. Also you ignored my point about his actual body under the armor, so this doesn't change my argument."


>Yes, but this armor literally has no reason to scale to Solaris' own AP to begin with since it's protecting a spot with no defined durability, thus not upscaling from anything. Even though it could be argued to be stronger than Solaris' core, it's not because it's superior to it, it's just that the core is a metaphysical consciousness that can't have a physical tier to begin with, completely different to armor for a human being.


"So his invulnerability is Low 2-B, but the Emeralds aren't. Right, because that's logic."


>Yes, you can have hax that are greater than your AP value in terms of tier value, it's actually not that shocking. We literally have character here with multiverse level abilities while also being on a far smaller physical scale than said abilities.


"Also Silver didn't "physically reflect the attacks", he used his Psychokinesis, which was amped by the Emeralds. Also, this is why I view Invulnerability as an NLF. If he can't survive higher level attacks, then he's not invulnerable, that's just the limit of what he can withstand, in other words, his DURABILITY. Invulnerability isn't real, it's just a durability amp. Also what does a nuke have to do with this?"


>That ironically makes your case worse since redirecting an attack via telekinesis can't be measured in AP and would be lifting strength at best. Also, if you're going to complain so much about invulnerability, make a CRT for it instead of explaining why it's bad here.


"Yeah but it wouldn't leave anything alive intact."


>Not necessarily. Take the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, most organisms didn't permanently die off, but simply evolved into modern day animals such as most species of birds. Further, Chaos uses water to destroy the surface, I'm pretty sure most sea life wouldn't be massively affected at the very moment of destruction.


"... that's not a planet. That's the Black Comet, & it's not even city-sized."


>Forgive me for the lack of context, I seem to have left out a crucial piece of supporting text. I was essentially comparing this feat to the one in Sonic Adventure 2 where Sonic and Shadow needed to use Chaos Control to stop a planetary threat. Black Doom's example is essentially a greater version of that with an amp needing to be used.


"I watched the video you linked, Eggman wasn't surprised at all. Plus, the Emeralds didn't have any stronger showings at that time, so if he WAS surprised, it wouldn't debunk future showings, because Eggman isn't aware of any stronger feats. (Also you linked me Gaia Colossus for some reason)"


>My bad, I accidentally sent the wrong scan. Here's what I meant to send. Assuming you plan to use the refute that Eggman hadn't seen planetary power up to that point, Sonic Adventure 1 already establishes the characters as planetary threats, so I wouldn't really fall back on Eggman not knowing its true potential.


"Sonic has struggled against a grand total of 1 Tier 5 threat. No showing has ever implied much, if any struggle on Super Sonic's part besides Dark Gaia. As for Eggman, that's fine, I'll accept it."


>Add the one in Sonic Adventures 2 to the list since that was also a planetary feat that required both Sonic and Shadow to use Chaos Control and supposedly killing Shadow via energy exhaustion.