The official discord link if you wish to join the discord: https://discord.gg/j5RKwCvAFu

The background art comes from Cherylann1960.

Support the wiki on our official Ko-Fi page or Patreon page!

User:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sandbox: Difference between revisions

From The Codex
Line 1: Line 1:
<tabber>
"To conclude this portion, the strength of the Emeralds vary based on the user's thoughts & heart, & there's nothing saying this doesn't apply to singular Emeralds either."
|-|Innate Abilities=
 
{{#tag:tabber|
 
{{!}}-{{!}}Powers=
 
[[Superhuman Physical Characteristics]], [[Magic|Divine Magic]], [[Weapon Mastery]] (Has mastered several classes of weapons and obtained hundreds of weapons over his various journeys and battles), [[Vehicular Mastery]] (Can pilot and master various vehicles such as the Lightning Chariot upon just getting them), [[Telepathy]], [[Clairvoyance]], and [[Cosmic Awareness]], ([https://youtu.be/2mDyxziT6xw?t=10m18s All divine beings can] [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk?t=7m51s telepathically communicate between each other] and [https://youtu.be/Av4cP-mAnR4?t=7m05s use their conversations to locate the other's whereabouts regardless of where they are]. [https://youtu.be/DTgJTeiIhsQ?t=22m20s Dark Pit could hear the destruction of Hades' heart from the Underworld and tracked down Pit while he was inside Hades]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m22s Hades' stomach is an entirely separate space-time continuum from the Underworld]. [https://youtu.be/VNWVUs509sw?t=9m50s Can sense the presence of other beings even when they're not there]), [[Martial Arts|Hand-to-Hand Proficiency]], [[Acrobatics]] and Limited [[Attack Reflection]] (Can perform dodge maneuvers such as rolls, somersaults, and other acrobatic stunts which can [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=0m55s deflect projectiles off Pit if timed correctly]), Limited [[Invulnerability]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=3m00s Pit can temporarily enter a state of invulnerability after being hit] [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m54s for roughly one second]), [[Stealth Mastery|Stealth Proficiency]] ([http://imgur.com/gallery/TNhEtBG Escaped the Underworld Prison] while the guard numbers were low), [[Social Influencing]] ([https://youtu.be/GLQ-2iU_P_A?t=2m14s Can haggle with various shopkeepers to lower the price of their products for Pit]. Pit's rally cry [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m41s encourages his foes to support his efforts]), [[Breaking the Fourth Wall]] (Is aware of [[The Player (Nintendo)|The Player]] and their world, along with [https://youtu.be/mgJMNl5FTwk referencing other Nintendo franchises like] [[Metroid (Verse)|Metroid]]), [[Cartoon Physics]], [[Regeneration]] (Low, potentially Low-Godly to Mid-Godly. [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=9m56s Pit regrew his hair and healed his bruises from Zeus' lightning bolt by the time he entered the next room]. Potentially scales to the lower-leveled gods such as Pandora), [[Transmutation]] ([https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=4m30s Killed enemies are turned into hearts after being defeated]), [[Divine Protection]], [[Immortality]], and [[Blessed]] (Type 1, 4, 6, and 8. Pit, along with other angels and gods, [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk?t=1m39s doesn't age without supernatural influence and views hundreds of years as a short timeframe]. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KeTkoQXPsw&t=801 If Pit dies, Palutena will resurrect him shortly afterwards]. Him and Palutena have even [https://youtu.be/OS74P36Ty0M?t=4m13s referenced] [https://youtu.be/3ImJbjla2bE?t=6m13s several of his deaths in the past] including from the original Kid Icarus game [http://imgur.com/gallery/2u5x1gE where Palutena was captured and petrified]. [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=20m32s Can survive catching on fire] and still persist even after his wings are burned off. [[Dark Pit]] [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=12m46s refers to him and Pit as two sides of the same coin]. When Pit burnt his wings off and was completely unconscious, [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=1m13s he was miraculously able to persist] despite [https://youtu.be/jRVyxhZEIFo?t=2m20s Palutena describing this scenario as being fatal beyond her control], implying Pit and Dark Pit's connection kept the two alive long enough to revive Pit), [[Time Travel]], [[Time Manipulation]], and [[Save and Load]] (Type 2, 3, and 4. Can save and load to return at any previous events similarly to [[Mario|other Nintendo]] [[Ness|characters]]. Check notes for further elaboration), [[Self-Sustenance]] (Type 1. [https://youtu.be/OS74P36Ty0M?t=3m37s Can breathe in space]), [[Sheer Will]], [[Possession]], and [[Empowerment]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m23s Through willpower alone], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m23s Pit can possess another's body] [https://youtu.be/l4_P_vHtb5c?t=14m29s and grant them his divine powers]. Pit can enter [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Crisis_Recovery Crisis Mode] [https://youtu.be/U0kmGZQWa_M?t=7m16s which allows him to persist even after having no health and eventually restore it]), [[Extrasensory Perception]], [[Non-Physical Interaction]], and [[Intangibility|Lower-Dimensional Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/fER7DRKitFM Can see and use grind rails while nobody else can]. [https://youtu.be/hrgV5HjREfE?t=8m14s Can interact with and kill Sinistews], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1891 which are beings who reside in a one-dimensional universe]. [https://youtu.be/LnTF61sslIE?t=8m50s Could sense Ness' PSI energy]), [[Acausality|Acausality Negation]] (Type 3. [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=17m40s Killed the Chaos Kin] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m06s whose origins resides in the Chaos Vortex, a dimension with irregular laws and physics]), [[Regeneration|Regeneration Negation]], [[Resurrection|Resurrection Negation]], and [[Immortality|Immortality Negation]], and [[Soul Manipulation]] (Type 3, possibly 4, 6, and 7. Low-Godly. [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=19m54s Can kill Hewdraw], [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=4m57s whose head can live despite lacking a body and even] [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=17m37s regenerate their entire body back in a short timeframe]. Can kill Underworld troops, who are [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=6m31s made from souls effectively destroying the soul in the process] and characters like [[Medusa (Kid Icarus)|Medusa]] and Pandora. The latter was able to [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=10m03s resurrect herself after being absorbed by Dark Pit]. Medusa also implied that after [[Dark Pit]] [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=5m59s absorbed her powers, she could no longer resurrect Pandora]), [[Reactive Adaptation]] ([http://imgur.com/gallery/itTHWS9 Pit grows stronger through the more enemies he fights, making his powers stronger as well], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=6m26s can fight previous bosses] [https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=2m41s without the aid of all three Sacred Treasures] [https://youtu.be/Gn6oaVzFSJE?t=13m40s when he needed them prior]. Hades noted how [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=0m47s 8-Bit Pit was no match for the current Pit]. [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Monoeye Pit went from having his stamina and power drained by Monoeyes to being too divine for them to even touch]), [[Telekinesis]] (Can [https://youtu.be/yUaLd7sL40Q telekinetically command the Guardian Orbitars] and Protective Crystals, which [http://imgur.com/gallery/IdQR5Vq circle Pit's body] [https://youtu.be/-P--ngygnfI?t21m08s even without the need to summon or control them]. Scales to [[Palutena]] and [[Poseidon (Kid Icarus)|Poseidon]]), [[Summoning]] ([https://youtu.be/zk4JsKWzzZc?t=6m06s Can summon Palutena's troops] [https://youtu.be/VNWVUs509sw?t=1m58s and the Great Sacred Treasure on him]. [https://youtu.be/8bCwBTp9e_M?t=6m34s Can also summon any of his weapons] [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=8m43s mid-battle to him])
>Pretty irrelevant given that Sonic using the Chaos Emeralds' true power literally [https://youtu.be/R47eN-ERO6s stalemated with Perfect Chaos who was using negative energy]. After the fight, Sonic said that he had to [https://youtu.be/8tKUsUhU6Sk?t=13m05s erase Chaos' urge to fight to even stop the two from battling any further], proving that regardless of your emotional state or the power being used by the user, you don't jump entire tiers worth of power, you just get a '''Higher''' rating for that. Furthermore, we follow this rule for [[Samus Aran|other characters]] too, so this isn't a concept exclusive to the Sonic series.
{{!}}-{{!}}Resistances=
 
[[Resistance]] to [[Magic]], [[Heat Manipulation|Extreme Heats]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/dz8L-_MpzSM?t=1m21s Can fight in the Underworld] [https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=7m06s and inside Volcanoes]. Can endure hits from the Earthmaul [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=3m43s which uses a sun replica as the main weapon]), [[Cold Manipulation|Extreme Colds]] ([https://youtu.be/1SHwf1sc_ZQ?t=35m38s Can traverse in the tundra] and [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=6m58s parts of the Underworld where it's cold]), [[Petrification]] ([https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=18m16s Despite Pit originally needing to use the Mirror Shield] [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=12m18s to defend himself from] [https://youtu.be/Zez4QlSTE_Q Medusa's petrification], [https://youtu.be/5dPBU0dI7iY?t=31m43s he has since gained a complete immunity]), [[Transmutation]] ([https://youtu.be/Eou94986ZoY?t=7m21s Doesn't turn into hearts when defeated by opponents like the] [[Fighter (Kid Icarus)|Fighters]]), [[Life Manipulation|Life Force Absorption]] and [[Paralysis Inducement]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=25m28s Is too divine to have his life force absorbed and is no longer paralyzed when hit by Monoeyes]), [[Status Effect Inducement]], [[Poison Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=4m40s Can quickly dispel poisonous effects]), [[Fire Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/uZu1MaBOkG0?t=6m02s Can recover from being scorched by lava in a short period]. Tanks attacks from Pyrrhon [https://youtu.be/_KovW6T_z10?t=4m57s who is the Sun God]), [[Electricity Manipulation]] (Can tank lightning bolts from both [https://youtu.be/FcndukR1lzE?t=9m56s Zeus and] [https://youtu.be/wjaKAHF3Zyc?t=19m06s Phosphora]), [[Ice Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/ZkmNi-WvtAQ?t=14m02s Can break out of being frozen solid]),  [[Darkness Manipulation]], [[Curse Manipulation]] and [[Corruption]] (The [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m38s Gaol Blade is made from the same curse that] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=3m54s corrupted Lord Gaol into a slave of evil], which can't corrupt Pit even when being struck), [[Death Manipulation]] (Can survive being struck by the Thanatos Staff. As Thanatos is the god of death and the weapon is made after him [Even having some of his signature attacks], it should have similar attributes to his being), [[Chaos Manipulation|Calamity Manipulation]] (Can survive being struck by the Pandora Claws [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=7m58s fire projectiles made of Pandora's essences that blocks]. Given the Pandora Claws are designed around Pandora, the goddess of Calamity, and uses her form as the main ammunition, it should share her attributes), [[Nothingness Manipulation]] and [[Soul Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1785 Despite the Reaper's scythe being capable of ripping out the victim's soul, this does not work on Pit]. [[Hades (Kid Icarus)|Hades]] [https://youtu.be/DTgJTeiIhsQ?t=951 can render a soul nonexistent when he eats it, which had no effect on Pit]. [https://youtu.be/lGcijujgd1o?t=5m22s Souls in Kid Icarus are just another material that lacks any personality]. When Pit was sealed in a ring, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=9m45s his body lacked a soul and was completely mindless, but still able to fight]. [http://imgur.com/gallery/paQsuAy The Collin had their soul removed by Medusa but could still fight for Angel Land]), [[Mind Manipulation]] and [[Possession]] (Underworld troops such as [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2242 Cacaws attack with a piercing noise that damages the brain, which does regular physical damage to Pit]. [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=19m39s The Aurum Brain], [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=19m06s which had previously hacked and mind controlled Pyrrhon], was unable to take control over Pit despite him [https://youtu.be/tMVHfdQd5rA?t=5m55s directly being inside the Aurum Brain and attacking it]), [[BFR]] and [[Spatial Manipulation]] (Type 2 and 3. [https://youtu.be/hrgV5HjREfE?t=8m14s Can escape the Sinistew's pot], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=1891 which is a one-dimensional universe]), [[Law Manipulation]] and [[Physics Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=48m06s Despite the Chaos Vortex not being governed by the physical laws of the regular universe], [https://youtu.be/BX71K7RX0vY?t=1m56s Pit is unaffected by the lack of those laws]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s Can survive within a black hole with no major consequences]), [[Space-Time Manipulation]] and [[Pain Manipulation|Immense Pain Tolerance]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m41s The Chomp Trap bends both space and time], [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s inducing immense pain to the target] which Pit can power through. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s Can survive within a black hole with no repercussions]. Pit regularly survives fatal injuries thanks to Crisis Mode), [[One Hit Kill]] (Before ever dying, Pit can enter [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Crisis_Recovery Crisis Mode], [https://youtu.be/U0kmGZQWa_M?t=7m16s preventing him from being one-shotted until hit again in time])
 
}}
 
|-|Equipment=
"Tails' statement at the end also implies that emotions aren't meant to utilize the Emeralds' power. Rather, it amps the Emeralds, allowing the user to achieve even greater power with them. Now maybe I'm alone in this, but having the Emeralds vary in strength alleviates the issue of outliers. This way, not every foe that fights Super Sonic ends up at Complex Universe level just for fighting Super Sonic, rather their strength will be judged on a case-by-case basis using THEIR feats, statements that have to do with THEIR strength, & consistent scaling (Ex. Perfect Chaos & Ultimate G-Merl use the Emeralds' negative energy, so they can likely scale to the Eclipse Cannon destroying Earth, as it uses the same power source. Metal Overlord was so powerful that Eggman believed the Emeralds might fail to beat him, so he should scale to previous Emerald feats Eggman is aware of, like the Eclipse Cannon again. Naturally only the Emeralds scale to Solaris, no one else). Even though Sonic uses the positive energy of the Emeralds, this doesn't mean he's always using their full power. If his mind & heart are set on defeating a foe, then the Emeralds are going to give him the strength to defeat said foe, not give him universe-busting power right off the bat."
[[Instinctive Reaction]] ([https://imgur.com/a/DcBEnoC Will automatically fly away or out of hazards with the Angel's Feather]. The Dodge Token allows one to [https://youtu.be/qx6DApxtG2Q?t=8m36s dodge any incoming attacks automatically]), [[Healing]] and [[Restoration]] ([https://imgur.com/gallery/nsWRXO9 Can restore his health and strength during battle, and even after dying, to continue fighting]), [[Transmutation]] and Minor [[Power Nullification]] (Can use the Harp to [https://imgur.com/a/ZHo1H2D turn anything on screen into a mallet for Pit to collect]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m19s The Eggplant] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m24s and Tempura Bomb] [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s transforms the opponent into an Eggplant and/or Tempura with legs], [https://youtu.be/xMSX1j8qLfU?t=6m18s rendering them defenseless] [https://youtu.be/Hm1kUz_Ia2Y?t=5m31s and far weaker than before]), [[Curtain Fire]], [[Unlimited Ammo]] (All weapons run on either a [https://youtu.be/quvBx4Xvnfc renewable] [https://youtu.be/Mon4moiYRqI?t=5m36s source], or unlimited energy), [[Extended Blade Range]] (Weapon classes such as the blades can [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=0m23s create an energy-like extension for the weapon which act as a method for close quarters combat]), [[Intangibility|Intangible Attacks]] and [[Durability Negation]] (Various weapons, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2m09s most notably the clubs], [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=1m03s can fire projectiles that pass through objects and enemies]), [[Poison Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=1m35s Can inflict Poison onto opponents with the Viper Blade] [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=6m02s and Scorpio Staff], which can poison the dead. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m41s The Poison Cloud bomb creates a] [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=7m11s toxic mist that damages those who step near or in it]. [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=11m20s Can poison opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Poison Card]), [[Fire Manipulation]] (Pit's arrows are [https://imgur.com/gallery/IdQR5Vq lit on fire which can do extra damage]. Various weapons such as the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=6m12s Wolf Claws], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=18m53s Burning Palm], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=22m36s Twinbellows Cannon], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=25m23s Phoenix Arm] [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=0m40s set foes ablaze with their attacks]. [https://youtu.be/cO7YE5Fx8s4?t=5m58s Can ignite opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Flame Card]), [[Heat Manipulation]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] (The Optical Blade is stated to be [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=13m57s hot enough to melt through steel] [[https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=4m28s The blade's melee strikes even reference Star Wars' light sabers]]. The EarthMaul club uses a [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=3m43s sun replicate to damage foes]), [[Air Manipulation]] and [[Weather Manipulation]] (The Samurai Blade creates [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=4m48s gusts of sharp wind that cut through opponents]. The Ore Club creates [https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=0m13s tornados with its swings]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m27s The Cyclone throwable] [https://youtu.be/d3QDkAITT2k?t=8m52s creates a tornado, leaving the opponent vulnerable to attacks]), [[Water Manipulation]] and [[Ice Manipulation]] (Baring the sign of Aquarius, the Aquarius blade uses [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m16s pressurized water to cut through foes with little effort]. Being hit by the blade itself [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=6m43s freezes the opponent]. The Icy Aura [https://youtu.be/Mon4moiYRqI?t=8m46s envelopes the user in an icy mist that freezes anyone who gets too close]. [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=20m11s Can freeze opponents on hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with an Ice Card]), [[Darkness Manipulation]], [[Curse Manipulation]] and [[Corruption]] (The [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=14m38s Gaol Blade is made from the same curse that] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=3m54s corrupted Lord Gaol into a slave of evil] and can directly fire [https://youtu.be/y4BzfMUxzDY?t=8m30s cursed shots which leave an effect on enemies struck by it]), Limited [[Spatial  Manipulation]] (The Ancient Staff's charged shots [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=3m18s linger within the air and inverts space around it]), [[Plant Manipulation]] (The Rose Staff fires [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=1m37s vines and roses as projectiles at opponents]. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=45m48s The Demon Vine] [https://youtu.be/1dh07h5ug5c?t=15m53s creates a small area of vines which damage and barricade opponents]), [[Necromancy]], [[Animal Manipulation]], and [[Death Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=8m11s Can summon giant skulls engulfed in cursed energy and flames] along with [https://youtu.be/I7dhqezJ_pk?t=8m36s bats with the Thanatos staff]. As Thanatos is the god of death and the weapon is made after him [Even having some of his signature attacks], it should have similar attributes to his being), [[Invisibility]] and [[Sound Manipulation|Sound Nullification]] ([https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=2m48s The Stealth Claw shots are completely invisible] which are even invisible to characters with [[Enhanced Senses]]. The wearer of the Stealth Claws gains silent movement when attacking), [[Irreversible Damage]] (The Raptor Claws' attacks are so brutal, [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=16m42s that wounds inflicted by it refuse to heal]), [[Light Manipulation]] (Various weapons produce light including the [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=6m26s Beam Claws]), [[Forcefield Creation|Barrier Creation]], [[Attack Reflection]], and [[Chaos Manipulation|Calamity Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/iIzhLS0Cfkc?t=6m25s The Virgo Palm can create large black hole-like barriers], and the Guardian Orbitars can manifest [https://youtu.be/qx6DApxtG2Q?t=10m25s large shields that can block] and [https://youtu.be/NTQXbz5T9Bo?t=4m32s counter incoming attacks]. The Pandora Claws can [https://youtu.be/XWLo2tQjMVw?t=8m03s create a barrier made of Pandora's essences that blocks incoming projectiles]. Given the Pandora Claws are designed around Pandora, the goddess of Calamity, and uses her form as the main ammunition, it should share her attributes), [[Electricity Manipulation]] and [[Paralysis Inducement]] (Various weapons such as the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=18m41s Phosphora Bow], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=20m57s Halo Club], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=22m09s Dynamo Cannon], [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=23m01s Shock Orbitars], and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=24m23s Electroshock Arm] [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m30s electrocute and paralyze opponents]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m49s Can shock opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Paralysis Card]), [[Durability Negation]] and [[Summoning]] ([https://youtu.be/iIzhLS0Cfkc?t=8m33s The Reaper Palm can summon Reapettes] and [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=20m00s cuts the opponent's health in half], regardless of their physical stats. [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=15m47s Can summon Centurions with the Centurion Assist]), [[Creation]] and [[Earth Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=2m05s Can create chunks of buildings as projectiles with the Skyscraper Club]. The Cragalanche Cannon fires [https://youtu.be/r1eEAehxjTE?t=8m26s boulders and meteorites at the opponents]), [[Metal Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/a-ukgE96NrM?t=6m14s Can create large metal projectiles with the Black Club]), [[Petrification]] ([https://youtu.be/651RDNV-tKg?t=1m05s The Medusa Head fires eye beams that petrify anyone hit]. [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m17s Can petrify opponents upon hit] [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m38s with a Stone Card]), [[Invulnerability]] (Type 2. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=43m17s The Power-Up Drop] [https://youtu.be/hxIi8YhfEmI?t=9m58s grants the user complete invulnerability for a brief period of time]), [[Size Manipulation]] (The Shrinky Bean [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=6m59s decreases the user's size and increases their evasion]. [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/File:Giant_Marker_Effect.png Can increase the opponent's size], making them an easier and slower target with the [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m49s Giant Maker]), [[BFR]], [[Space-Time Manipulation]], and [[Pain Manipulation]] (Type 2. [https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m41s The Chomp Trap bends space and time and] [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s warps the opponent into a dimension of pain]), [[Velocity Manipulation|Movement Negation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=44m46s Can trap opponents in a Capture Circle], [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=14m06s nullifying their movement])
 
|-|Goddess Powers and Boons=
 
Limited [[Flight]] ([https://youtu.be/CS-dbFyi3L0?t=3m50s Can fly for five minutes with the Power of Flight before Pit's wings begin to burn up]), [[Information Analysis]] (Palutena can provide [https://youtu.be/Y0JwNB_ckvg?t=0m12s information to Pit on his opponents mid-combat]. Due to the nature of Kid Icarus as a franchise, Palutena has shown a great deal of knowledge on [https://youtu.be/9HEisHGO1bk other Nintendo verses such as] [[Metroid (Verse)|Metroid]], [[Super Mario Bros.]], and [[The Legend of Zelda]]), [[Law Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=2m01s The Fiend's Cauldron can adjust the difficulty of a chapter]. This can make fights so easy that the enemy [https://youtu.be/0Nwg0vFVyHo?t=9m27s outright refuses to attack back]. Each time Pit dies, the Fiend's Cauldron [https://youtu.be/0Nwg0vFVyHo?t=8m47s loses some hearts, automatically adjusting the difficulty of a level]), [[Teleportation]] and [[Dimensional Travel]] (Palutena can [https://youtu.be/CS-dbFyi3L0?t=8m33s teleport Pit in and out of battle], along with [https://youtu.be/XnsC8L9T6zU?t=4m26s teleport him back after being incapacitated]. Pit can [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m34s manually teleport himself with the Warp power-up]), Enhanced [[Clairvoyance]], [[Precognition]], and [[Radar Sensing]] (Type 1. By looking through Pit's laurel crown, Palutena can [https://youtu.be/2mDyxziT6xw?t=8m19s divine his surroundings revealing hidden objects and opponent]. Palutena can equip a [https://youtu.be/9sXm0sCJcqo?t=9m42s green tracking arrow which points to Pit's objective]), [[Fragrance Manipulation]] and Limited [[Empathic Manipulation]] (Palutena has a [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=11m39s Monster Pheromone which attracts monsters with its powerful sent when used on a particular person or object]), [[Purification]] and [[Power Nullification|Power Reversion]] (Within a short time period, Palutena can remove [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s permanent and lethal status ailments from Pit]), [[Chain Manipulation]], [[Velocity Manipulation]], and [[Power Nullification]] ([https://youtu.be/Gn6oaVzFSJE?t=15m00s Can chain down opponents preventing them from moving or teleporting away]), [[Summoning]] and [[Creation]] (Palutena can summon [https://youtu.be/fER7DRKitFM Grind Rails that only Pit see], along with various other items and vehicles), [[Healing]] ([https://youtu.be/V9zaCd8o05A?t=42m37s Palutena can grant food and other healables for Pit on his journey] [https://youtu.be/9sXm0sCJcqo?t=9m42s even when her powers are being blocked off by other gods]. [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=12m10s Can quickly heal when in a pinch with the Health Recovery Power]), [[Statistics Amplification]] (Various Power-ups can increase the user's physical stats such as Super Speed, [https://youtu.be/i_20LeBSgXU?t=1m19s which allows the user to blitz their opponents] and the Super Armor Power-up which [https://youtu.be/I-B343We-UM?t=2m49s slightly increases the user's durability]), [[Transformation]] and [[Explosion Manipulation]] (Can transform into an [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m12s explosive projectile with the Angelic Missile]. [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m0s Can summon an explosive flame with the Explosive Flame Power-up], and a [https://youtu.be/1iio-EyD7TY?t=11m52s landmine with the Land Mine Power-up]), [[Transmutation]] and Minor [[Power Nullification]] (The Idol Transformation Power-up [https://youtu.be/v0_sGRE5lqE?t=12m07s turns enemies into idols for Pit to collect]. The Eggplant and Tempura Attack [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=11m36s transforms the opponent into an Eggplant and/or Tempura with legs], [https://youtu.be/xMSX1j8qLfU?t=6m18s rendering them defenseless] [https://youtu.be/Hm1kUz_Ia2Y?t=5m31s and far weaker than before]), [[Energy Manipulation]] ([https://youtu.be/wjaKAHF3Zyc?t=19m37s The Mega Laser Power-up fires a massive laser in a single direction]), [[Black Hole Creation]] (The Black Hole Power-up creates a [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=19m01s black hole pulling anyone nearby to its epicenter]), [[Summoning]] and [[Plasma Manipulation]] (Summons shooting starts to [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=23m16s rain on opponents with the Meteor Shower Power-up]), [[Forcefield Creation]] and [[Attack Reflection]] (The Reflect Barrier Power-up [https://youtu.be/rKED69WAdGA?t=4m49s creates a barrier that blocks] [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=2m04s and reflects all incoming attacks]), [[Light Manipulation]] (Can summon a [https://youtu.be/xqTW13AYniY?t=1m59s light from the heavens that damages all nearby opponents with the Heavenly Light Power-up]), [[Self-Destruction]] (Spite allows the user to convert their remaining health into a [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Spite powerful explosion to damage all nearby opponents]), [[Homing Attack]] and [[Information Analysis]] (Autoreticle, Homing Boost, and Weak-Point Reticle Power-ups [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m12s lock on], [https://youtu.be/YVIriL-0UKg?t=0m49s home in more efficiently], and analyze weak points on opponents), [[Power Modification]] (Quick Charge, when used, [https://youtu.be/emcB2_YdoeI?t=1m18s charges Pit's charged attacks far faster] and Energy Charge [https://youtu.be/-2CSftFoOPI?t=1m55s passively builds up energy to amplify the user's attacks]), [[Intangibility|Intangible Attacks]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m59s Slip Shot makes Pit's attacks intangible and able to slip through walls]), [[Invisibility|Invisible Attacks]] (Invisible Shots makes [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=4m59s all of Pit's shots invisible] even to characters with [[Enhanced Senses]]), [[Poison Manipulation]] (Poison Attack makes [https://youtu.be/1Wfm9Rm2ne8?t=2m44s all of Pit's attacks inflict poison on the opponent]), [[Paralysis Inducement]] (Paralysis Attack makes [https://youtu.be/aKLgF_xh2xE?t=7m21s  all of Pit's attacks] [https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m49s inflict paralysis on the opponent]), [[Petrification]], [[Velocity Manipulation]] and [[Vibration Manipulation|Shockwave Generation]] ([https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Shake_Attack Shake and] [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Spin_Attack Spin Attack] make all of Pit's attacks inflict shake and spin on the opponent), [[Mind Manipulation]] (Confuse Attack makes [https://youtu.be/3ImJbjla2bE?t=14m37s all of Pit's attacks inflict confused on the opponent]), [[Fire Manipulation]] (Fire Attack makes [https://youtu.be/XZB4Gj4sabE?t=8m56s all of Pit's attacks inflict fire on the opponent]), [[Ice Manipulation]] (Freeze Attack makes [https://youtu.be/OLb-gqwB-uc?t=20m11s all of Pit's attacks inflict freeze on the opponent]), [[Death Manipulation]] (Instant Death Attack makes [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Death_Attack all of Pit's attack instantly kill the opponent]), [[Power Absorption]] (Power Thief can [https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Thief steal an opponent's powers, making them unable to use them and allowing the user to use them]), [[Reactive Power Level]] ([https://kidicarus.fandom.com/wiki/Libra_Sponge Libra Sponge increases the user's strength when they take attacks]), [[Darkness Manipulation]] and [[Perception Manipulation]] (Darkness creates a [https://youtu.be/651RDNV-tKg?t=2m27s pitch black dome that blinds all opponents within it]), [[Power Nullification|Power Disruption]] (Interference creates a beacon that [https://youtu.be/uBqy8ZQJggo?t=10m17s disrupts the opponent's ability to use powers and see the target's stats]), [[Disease Manipulation]], [[Statistics Reduction]], and [[Paralysis Inducement]] (The Virus Power-up reduces the opponent's [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m23s maximum health and paralyzes them]), [[Invulnerability]] (The Brief Invulnerability Power-up allows the user to [https://youtu.be/DAUOrZCSphY?t=9m30s briefly remain immune to all damage]. The Celestial Firework [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=3m0s makes the user temporarily invulnerable while using it]), [[Density Manipulation]] (Lightweight increases Pit's speed by [https://youtu.be/kkrQKZ1Z3-w?t=1m47s decreasing his weight, making him easier to damage and launch]), [[Invisibility]] and [[Intangibility]] ([https://youtu.be/zqLkYhaEzC0?t=29m29s The Transparency and Playing Dead Power-ups allow the user to become completely invisible and intangible for a fixed amount of time]), [[Precognition|Analytical Prediction]] ([https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=5m53s Can automatically counter attacks before being hit]), [[Vacuum Manipulation]] (Item Vacuum [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m52s teleports and pulls in items on the field]), [[Duplication]] (Double Item [https://youtu.be/IYlhQtRzShU?t=6m16s doubles the items Pit picks up in battle]), [[Sound Manipulation]] (Can change the theme of the level with Fortune's Jukebox)
 
</tabber>
>Like I said earlier, your entire argument hinges on the idea that a gap exists between negative and positive energy, when Sonic Adventures literally shows that both are equal in power output, thus the idea that negative energy is X tier lower than positive energy makes no sense from a narrative standpoint.
----
 
{{Tab2|maintext=The Katayanagi Twins|link1=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi|tab1=Comicbook|link2=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi (Movie)|tab2=Movie|link3=Kyle and Ken Katayanagi (Video Game)|tab3=Video Game|link4=Todd Ingram (Composite)|tab4=Composite}}
 
<tabber>
 
|-|Kyle=
"So the subject of this Revision is that Sonic shouldn't scale to Chaos Emeralds... & I agree with this, but for different reasons, I'll get into that later. What I want to address here is the lack of any substantial proof that Emeralds are "vastly superior to the rest of the cast". All that was shown is a clip of Sonic being surprised that Tails found a Chaos Emerald. Being surprised at something doesn't automatically make it vastly superior to you, & saying the cast shouldn't scale just because the Emeralds have unlimited power doesn't make sense either."
[[File:Kyle K. Render SP.png|thumb|385px]]
 
{{Quote|I wager she's packing her bags right now.|Kyle to [[Scott Pilgrim]]}}
 
|-|Ken=
 
[[File:Ken K. Render SP.png|thumb|385px]]
>He wasn't just surprised because they found a Chaos Emerald, he and Tails directly state that its power is unlimited; What shocks them is the fact that they have access to it at that moment. Not only is this statement [https://youtu.be/wxsZmmxUgkM?t=5m11s consistent in other games], but we know that "power" and "energy" [https://youtu.be/NbhxkGJaOHU?t=12m27s directly correlates] [https://youtu.be/NbhxkGJaOHU?t=22m20s to AP in this context].
{{Quote|You think she'd do this for you?|Ken to [[Scott Pilgrim]]}}
 
</tabber>
 
{{Quote|Double Hurrican Kick!|Kyle and Ken's signature technique}}
 
==Background==
"That's like saying Character A fought Character B, who has infinite power, & Character A can't scale because he views Character B as having infinite power.'
 
 
 
>Except this is a false equivalence since a scenario like this never happens in Sonic the Hedgehog series.
 
 
 
"Chaos scaling: You make a good point, every fight involves striking Chaos' brain or freezing him. Granted, this could be due to the fact that Chaos is a liquid, & therefore resistant to physical attacks. Even so, it's likely intended as a weak point, & should be treated as such. Besides, Chaos likely wasn't accessing the Emeralds' full power either."
 
 
 
>[https://youtu.be/DXHo9__fo0s?t=6m09s Mania Sonic directly strikes Chaos 0 and hurts him with a spindash], so I doubt it's intangibility. Even if I am to concede to them needing to attack the only physical part of Chaos, that doesn't debunk the brain being far weaker, like a brain naturally would be.
 
 
 
"Wisp scaling: This on the other hand, no not at all. Obviously I'm not gonna scale Sonic to the giant black hole at the end of the game, that conked him out like nothing, & it's a big outlier. However, this black hole was also made by 100s, if not 1000s of Wisps, maybe even more, & a similar number of Wisps negated this black hole. Furthermore, Nega Wisps on their own can create much smaller black holes that Sonic can scale to, as color powers only serve to double Sonic's AP, so he'd scale to half the strength. Not saying Sonic HAS to scale to the Wisps, as this gets into outlier territory, I'm just saying the scaling is somewhat viable."
 
 
 
>It doesn't even matter due to our [[Black Hole|black hole standards]] completely killing scaling to said black hole. Furthermore, the black hole in Colors follows nothing like a regular black hole.
 
 
 
"Egg Dragoon scaling: I mean, he never said the Egg Dragoon harnessed ALL the energy. There's really no reason for Egg Dragoon to scale to Dark Gaia in the first place."
 
 
 
>That's fine irregardless, but absorbing a portion of a power source would still make you that power source' tier (Look to [[Ness|this profile for reference]]).
 
 
 
"Rings: I'm sorry, no offense, but this argument is honestly laughable. Characters survive attacks from enemies far stronger than them all the time. It's called outliers, not Ring shields. Even if it wasn't, Rings are never canonically shown or stated to protect against damage."
 
 
 
>They are directly shown in games like Sonic Generations that rings [https://youtu.be/U2pz7YTdc8A?t=3m11s allow you to survive attacks as long as you have rings]. There's no need for a statement when the evidence is literally on screen.
 
 
 
"As for Rings showing up in cutscenes, that's because these cutscenes take place in a level with rings in it. That's game mechanics, not all games bother to despawn collectibles during cutscenes (if someone collected Rings during a cutscene, that might be a different story). Also you used Sonic Boom as a justification, which obviously doesn't take place in the same world as the main games, so it's rules don't apply here."
 
 
 
>That's irrelevant when they're still present regardless. Also, them being in Sonic Boom but not the original continuity where the concept originated from would make no sense. If Rings were really intended to be a gameplay mechanic, they wouldn't be advertised in [https://youtu.be/9yzzrjCBIIw trailers] or coded in for enemies.
 
 
 
"Even if they did, that was obviously just a joke, it's not meant to be taken seriously. Using a manual as justification is also blatantly wrong because manuals tell you how to PLAY the game. In other words, they're functioning off of game mechanics too. The manual isn't made to function within the world of Sonic, it's made to tell you, the player, in the real nonfictional world, how to interact with this digital experience."
 
 
 
>So the story the game explains is also a gameplay mechanic, huh? Because manuals also give you direct in-lore explanations to the story of the game in question. But this point is irrelevant because we don't use the American manuals anymore to justify this argument.
 
 
 
"As for rival battles using Rings, that's still game mechanics, y'know, cause it takes place during gameplay. Besides, if that were the case, wouldn't EVERY (or at least most) boss fight have a ring mechanic?"
 
 
 
>Just because rings exist in-verse doesn't mean all characters use them. Recall that we scale most characters to the main cast, so them fighting regularly still narratively makes sense. Also, Sega coding in rings for rival battles does not enhance or balance the gameplay any further than what it originally was.
 
 
 
"Plus, this does nothing to explain fights like the Egg Dragon or Ultimate Emerl, which don't involve Rings."
 
 
 
 
 
>Every point that was made here is null & void, & holds no substance. If you think I'm being nitpicky, look at this https://youtu.be/LqvFZCXPHrU. Sonic literally says "let me collect rings" in reference to maintaining his super form, confirming in canon that rings are tied to the super form's energy (they continue to bring up rings to maintain their form throughout the fight & in future games). The series knows what to do when they want to confirm lore about the Rings. If it mattered as much as you say it does, then there'd be literal statements to back it up, but you have none. And at that point, Emerl and Egg Dragon are just outliers since Chaos Emeralds are consistently treated as superior to the cast.
 
 
 
"I should also add that GBE isn't all there is to this feat. There's also heat & weight, neither of which Sonic or his friends can counter (this thing weighs 4 billion tonnes, & this site only rates Sonic Class 10). Being crushed is something that can be a serious threat even if someone has high durability, same as long falls, which are generally thought to be fatal even when characters have much higher showings."
 
 
 
>[https://youtu.be/DXHo9__fo0s?t=20m24s You're right, it is the heat of the star Infinite made], which we actually have calced at [https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/wiki/Reference_for_Common_Feats?so=search#Surviving_the_Heat_of_the_Sun building level here on this wiki], so regardless, it's still a massive anti-feat. Also, we accept characters getting hurt or viewing large falls as dangerous as anti feats here, so that point is null.
 
 
 
"This is because it has to do with force as opposed to energy. My point is that there are a number of reasons why the sun feat shouldn't be considered an anti-feat, just an outlier for the sake of the plot, which happens pretty frequently in fiction."
 
 
 
>I mean we still scale Sonic and co above it, the point was to show that Sonic is riddled with narrative inconsistencies for his tier. Also, our wiki in particular attempts to stay true to how the narrative represents the characters, hence the tiering we have now.
 
 
 
"As for requiring a Phantom Ruby to counter it... I mean what else were they gonna do, punch it? It's still an illusion, it's not going to be affected so easily, & again, it's a sun, I don't think anyone could survive the heat, even if they were highly durable. Also, by your own logic, Rings would've kept Sonic from dying to something that would otherwise one-shot him, so any statements that Sonic downscales because he would die to a physical attack (not including black holes) contradicts your previous argument concerning Rings, further disproving what was easily the least viable argument of Revision 1."
 
 
 
>The rings argument doesn't matter because that implies the sun would instantly disappear upon making contact with the cast and not just suffocate them for an extended period of time, so regardless of how many rings they have, the star would eventually drain them and kill them instantly.
 
 
 
"Fragmenting a mountain: I've got no problem with that, though modern Sonic definitely has better feats than that 8-A calc."
 
 
 
If you're purely basing your arguments presented in that CRT alone, you should take a look at the [[Sonic the Hedgehog]] profile we have now, because we have the cast at 7-A.
 
 
 
"My alternative: Right now base form Sonic characters are rated Mountain level via the Little Planet feat... except there's no calc."
 
 
 
>A calculation isn't necessary for every potential feat, especially when said calc could possibly raise or lower the intended feat by the author. In this case, Little Planet was small enough that chains attached to mountains weren't tearing said mountains from the ground, thus the basis for our scaling.
 
 
 
"As for Modern Sonic, he no-sold a collision that shattered a massive base https://youtu.be/xb0pyrBkbcY?t=340 (watch till 5:55)"
 
 
 
>I doubt that would get any higher than our current rating.
 
 
 
"fought Iblis who induced a volcanic eruption https://youtu.be/dy20JQXLU7E?t=149,"
 
 
 
>Was the volcano active/close to eruption during the initial feat? Kinda hard to quantify said feat if we don't have that info.
 
 
 
"beat Erazor Djinn who drew in clouds https://youtu.be/ltXc6DcknXE?t=67"
 
 
 
>We don't scale the Arabian Nights to the regular universe in size, so this is unquantifiable
 
 
 
"There's also scaling to Eggman's machines, which should more or less scale to the tractor beams he used to tow planets across the universe in Sonic Colors https://youtu.be/XzmZQokUj5w?t=1598 (the planets are only continent-sized, but seem to have similar gravity to Earth, making them extremely dense & having high GBE). So Sonic should probably be City level to Multi-Continent level depending on what gets accepted."
 
 
 
>Well we accept mountain level, but this feat wouldn't be usable due to our [https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000020932 Kinetic Energy standards]. Furthermore, I don't know why we'd scale to robots specifically designed for the task to move planets large distances.
 
 
 
"Personally I rate PotS as Complex Universe level since the Eggmen claimed they would make the universe their plaything, & were superior to both sets of Emeralds, which the Eggmen planned on using to make their own world in Sonic Rush (more on that next)."
 
 
 
>Ironic how you complain about the statement we used for the PotS being too vague, but then use a statement equally as vague and interpretable. I'd actually say that this specific scenario is referring to reality warping due to the Chaos Emeralds consistent ability to warp space and time.
 
 
 
"What isn't a side effect is the outright statement that both sets of Emeralds could destroy the world by calling out to each other https://youtu.be/Iq01_F0Ch38?t=75. However, this is done when the Emerald sets are in close proximity, so that amp from earlier is likely still in play."
 
 
 
>"World" in context could very easily refer to the planet, which would make sense given how consistent the Emeralds are treated as a planetary threat. But if you mean the universe(s), that would literally refer to the Chaos and Sol Emeralds not being able to coexist together and causing their universes to merge and get erased.
 
 
 
"Furthermore, Eggman & Nega planned on using both sets of Emeralds to create their own world "beyond this dimension" (same vid, 3:10), implying that they were going to create their own universe similar in size to Sonic's & Blaze's (as mentioned in the PotS section, this is likely utilizing the combined strength of both sets of Emeralds, & so wouldn't scale to either set on its own)."
 
 
 
>That does not imply that their world would be of relative size to the primary universe, and I don't know why you made such a rash assumption. It's easily just as likely a world (Planet) or pocket dimension outside of either world.
 
 
 
"It's also worth noting that, because Sonic had the Emeralds, he was able to stop them from destroying the universe (same vid, 2:09 to 2:40)."
 
 
 
>Yes, because the entire plot is that the Sol Emeralds can't be outside their universe without merging it and causing both worlds to destroy themselves due to a rift in space-time [https://youtu.be/HI0v535mVUI?t=22m23s that expands slowly overtime] [https://youtu.be/HI0v535mVUI?t=1h16m20s and grows bigger]. This is not an acceptable feat under our standards due to the timeframe.
 
 
 
"Plus, he stops blocking after the armor is broken, which should imply that his body is less durable than his armor."
 
 
 
>Uhhh, on the contrary, that would actually suggest that Solaris' armor is <<< The core which makes no sense since the core is a metaphysical consciousness which realistically wouldn't have a durability.
 
 
 
"Even then, Super Silver is able to redirect Solaris' attacks, which should add to the reasons why they scale. Also I think Invulnerability is a NLF, but that's an argument for another day."
 
 
 
>That's attack reflection + invulnerability allowing his body to physically reflect the attacks back. Also, don't see how invulnerability is NLF when it's only up to a Low 2-B scale and it doesn't resist higher level attacks (I.e conceptual nuke).
 
 
 
Now for the anti-feats
 
 
 
"Chaos scaling: Nothing much to add here, but I will say I never liked the "destroy the world" statement as, if he did, then there wouldn't be a world to live on in the present. This either means "world" refers to the Echidna civilization, or he "attempted" to destroy the world, but was stopped when Tikal sealed him away. Also we don't know how long it'd take him."
 
 
 
>Or a surface wipe which would be High 6-A here. That would technically leave the planet in tact.
 
 
 
"ARK scaling: The Eclipse Cannon was made to destroy the planet using all 7 Chaos Emeralds. That doesn't mean it's the peak of the Emeralds' strength, it just means it's the peak of the ARK's strength, & something the Emeralds are capable of doing. Furthermore, the Eclipse Cannon was made for vengeance, negative purposes, & Eggman was going to use it for similarly bad things. In other words, this is just another feat for negative energy, & doesn't really affect Super Sonic."
 
 
 
 
 
Hard to believe it's the Emeralds at their casual/lowest level when it is very consistent that planetary is their peak. Just a few examples:
 
 
 
[https://youtu.be/jjPSFHbhGbk?t=101 Black Doom uses chaos control here to warp the planet to the surface of Earth]. Mind you, [https://imgur.com/a/y23xTBN Black Doom literally amplified the Chaos Emeralds to do this feat].
 
 
 
Gerald Robotnik says that [https://youtu.be/BVWIqWmbEH8?t=866 all seven Chaos Emeralds could destroy the planet].
 
 
 
[https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MrWarnerTheGreat/Recalc_of_the_Eclipse_Cannon_making_a_hole_in_the_moon Six Chaos Emeralds blew up a portion of the moon] which [https://youtu.be/mJcClMWtFp0?t=12m09s shocked Sonic and co].
 
 
 
Eggman was surprised by all seven Chaos Emeralds being able to [https://youtu.be/NbhxkGJaOHU?t=12m56s potentially destroy the planet].
 
 
 
And of course, there's the feats listed in my second part of the CRT.
 
 
 
"However, Dark Gaia is also one of the strongest things Eggman has ever had in his arsenal, describing it as having limitless energy https://youtu.be/UXK7HEbg1dg?t=2512, & seemingly valuing his power over the Emeralds (seeing as he yeets the Emeralds right after awakening Dark Gaia, though this could be PIS of a sort), potentially putting him on a similar or greater level than the Final Egg Blaster & Power of the Stars."
 
 
 
>Too bad that Dark Gaia is narratively only planet level, because he literally has to enter a coma to envelope and consume the entire planet. It would make no sense for him to be above planetary.
 
 
 
"There's also the fact that Dark Gaia gains power from negative energy, which would naturally conflict with Sonic's positive energy. After all, Super Sonic has never tired out in battle before. Plus, if Eggman yeeting the Emeralds is PIS, who's to say Sonic getting tired isn't as well?"
 
 
 
 
 
>I mean with what the narrative has consistently portrayed up to this point, Sonic was drained because he's consistently struggling with tier 5 threats, so that's definitely not PIS. Also, Eggman yeeting the Emeralds is moreso likely due to him not realizing the potential consequences or even the factor of restoring the Chaos Emeralds.
 
 
 
"The Space Colony ARK was going to destroy Earth using the Emeralds' negative energy: Planet level (Sonic Adventure 2) [Gerald also claims that the Emeralds could destroy the whole planet in Sonic Battle, adding further consistency]"
 
 
 
>Debunked this. Negative and positive energy are relative which is apparent by the very scene you tried to justify them being different in power. At best, Super forms get a '''Higher''' rating with more positive emotions since the power difference isn't notable enough.
 
 
 
"The Sol Emeralds cause Blaze's dimension to enter Sonic's: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [though it's possible that the dimension was moving of its own volition, not a lot of context is given]"
 
 
 
>Which is overtime and moving a universe isn't even a quantifiable feat on this wiki.
 
 
 
"Chaos & Sol Emeralds destroy the universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [the Emeralds were likely amping each other due to their close proximity, so this only scales to their combined power]"
 
 
 
>Via an overtime rift in the space-time continuum
 
 
 
"Chaos & Sol Emeralds create a universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [again, uses their combined strength]"
 
 
 
>Awful assumption to assume that Eggman and Nega were planning to make Eggman Land a universal place when their goals are consistently on a planetary scale.
 
 
 
"Chaos Emeralds stabilize the universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [this was done through their own power, as the Sol Emeralds were drained, & the Egg Salamander was wielding their power]"
 
 
 
>Literally just space-time manipulation due to the circumstances of the merge.
 
 
 
"Super forms break Solaris' shells & redirect his attacks: Complex Universe level (Sonic 06)"
 
 
 
>His shell doesn't scale to anything. And it being stronger than the core is literally irrelevant when it's Solaris' consciousness.

Revision as of 03:21, 7 February 2022

"To conclude this portion, the strength of the Emeralds vary based on the user's thoughts & heart, & there's nothing saying this doesn't apply to singular Emeralds either."


>Pretty irrelevant given that Sonic using the Chaos Emeralds' true power literally stalemated with Perfect Chaos who was using negative energy. After the fight, Sonic said that he had to erase Chaos' urge to fight to even stop the two from battling any further, proving that regardless of your emotional state or the power being used by the user, you don't jump entire tiers worth of power, you just get a Higher rating for that. Furthermore, we follow this rule for other characters too, so this isn't a concept exclusive to the Sonic series.


"Tails' statement at the end also implies that emotions aren't meant to utilize the Emeralds' power. Rather, it amps the Emeralds, allowing the user to achieve even greater power with them. Now maybe I'm alone in this, but having the Emeralds vary in strength alleviates the issue of outliers. This way, not every foe that fights Super Sonic ends up at Complex Universe level just for fighting Super Sonic, rather their strength will be judged on a case-by-case basis using THEIR feats, statements that have to do with THEIR strength, & consistent scaling (Ex. Perfect Chaos & Ultimate G-Merl use the Emeralds' negative energy, so they can likely scale to the Eclipse Cannon destroying Earth, as it uses the same power source. Metal Overlord was so powerful that Eggman believed the Emeralds might fail to beat him, so he should scale to previous Emerald feats Eggman is aware of, like the Eclipse Cannon again. Naturally only the Emeralds scale to Solaris, no one else). Even though Sonic uses the positive energy of the Emeralds, this doesn't mean he's always using their full power. If his mind & heart are set on defeating a foe, then the Emeralds are going to give him the strength to defeat said foe, not give him universe-busting power right off the bat."


>Like I said earlier, your entire argument hinges on the idea that a gap exists between negative and positive energy, when Sonic Adventures literally shows that both are equal in power output, thus the idea that negative energy is X tier lower than positive energy makes no sense from a narrative standpoint.


"So the subject of this Revision is that Sonic shouldn't scale to Chaos Emeralds... & I agree with this, but for different reasons, I'll get into that later. What I want to address here is the lack of any substantial proof that Emeralds are "vastly superior to the rest of the cast". All that was shown is a clip of Sonic being surprised that Tails found a Chaos Emerald. Being surprised at something doesn't automatically make it vastly superior to you, & saying the cast shouldn't scale just because the Emeralds have unlimited power doesn't make sense either."


>He wasn't just surprised because they found a Chaos Emerald, he and Tails directly state that its power is unlimited; What shocks them is the fact that they have access to it at that moment. Not only is this statement consistent in other games, but we know that "power" and "energy" directly correlates to AP in this context.


"That's like saying Character A fought Character B, who has infinite power, & Character A can't scale because he views Character B as having infinite power.'


>Except this is a false equivalence since a scenario like this never happens in Sonic the Hedgehog series.


"Chaos scaling: You make a good point, every fight involves striking Chaos' brain or freezing him. Granted, this could be due to the fact that Chaos is a liquid, & therefore resistant to physical attacks. Even so, it's likely intended as a weak point, & should be treated as such. Besides, Chaos likely wasn't accessing the Emeralds' full power either."


>Mania Sonic directly strikes Chaos 0 and hurts him with a spindash, so I doubt it's intangibility. Even if I am to concede to them needing to attack the only physical part of Chaos, that doesn't debunk the brain being far weaker, like a brain naturally would be.


"Wisp scaling: This on the other hand, no not at all. Obviously I'm not gonna scale Sonic to the giant black hole at the end of the game, that conked him out like nothing, & it's a big outlier. However, this black hole was also made by 100s, if not 1000s of Wisps, maybe even more, & a similar number of Wisps negated this black hole. Furthermore, Nega Wisps on their own can create much smaller black holes that Sonic can scale to, as color powers only serve to double Sonic's AP, so he'd scale to half the strength. Not saying Sonic HAS to scale to the Wisps, as this gets into outlier territory, I'm just saying the scaling is somewhat viable."


>It doesn't even matter due to our black hole standards completely killing scaling to said black hole. Furthermore, the black hole in Colors follows nothing like a regular black hole.


"Egg Dragoon scaling: I mean, he never said the Egg Dragoon harnessed ALL the energy. There's really no reason for Egg Dragoon to scale to Dark Gaia in the first place."


>That's fine irregardless, but absorbing a portion of a power source would still make you that power source' tier (Look to this profile for reference).


"Rings: I'm sorry, no offense, but this argument is honestly laughable. Characters survive attacks from enemies far stronger than them all the time. It's called outliers, not Ring shields. Even if it wasn't, Rings are never canonically shown or stated to protect against damage."


>They are directly shown in games like Sonic Generations that rings allow you to survive attacks as long as you have rings. There's no need for a statement when the evidence is literally on screen.


"As for Rings showing up in cutscenes, that's because these cutscenes take place in a level with rings in it. That's game mechanics, not all games bother to despawn collectibles during cutscenes (if someone collected Rings during a cutscene, that might be a different story). Also you used Sonic Boom as a justification, which obviously doesn't take place in the same world as the main games, so it's rules don't apply here."


>That's irrelevant when they're still present regardless. Also, them being in Sonic Boom but not the original continuity where the concept originated from would make no sense. If Rings were really intended to be a gameplay mechanic, they wouldn't be advertised in trailers or coded in for enemies.


"Even if they did, that was obviously just a joke, it's not meant to be taken seriously. Using a manual as justification is also blatantly wrong because manuals tell you how to PLAY the game. In other words, they're functioning off of game mechanics too. The manual isn't made to function within the world of Sonic, it's made to tell you, the player, in the real nonfictional world, how to interact with this digital experience."


>So the story the game explains is also a gameplay mechanic, huh? Because manuals also give you direct in-lore explanations to the story of the game in question. But this point is irrelevant because we don't use the American manuals anymore to justify this argument.


"As for rival battles using Rings, that's still game mechanics, y'know, cause it takes place during gameplay. Besides, if that were the case, wouldn't EVERY (or at least most) boss fight have a ring mechanic?"


>Just because rings exist in-verse doesn't mean all characters use them. Recall that we scale most characters to the main cast, so them fighting regularly still narratively makes sense. Also, Sega coding in rings for rival battles does not enhance or balance the gameplay any further than what it originally was.


"Plus, this does nothing to explain fights like the Egg Dragon or Ultimate Emerl, which don't involve Rings."



>Every point that was made here is null & void, & holds no substance. If you think I'm being nitpicky, look at this https://youtu.be/LqvFZCXPHrU. Sonic literally says "let me collect rings" in reference to maintaining his super form, confirming in canon that rings are tied to the super form's energy (they continue to bring up rings to maintain their form throughout the fight & in future games). The series knows what to do when they want to confirm lore about the Rings. If it mattered as much as you say it does, then there'd be literal statements to back it up, but you have none. And at that point, Emerl and Egg Dragon are just outliers since Chaos Emeralds are consistently treated as superior to the cast.


"I should also add that GBE isn't all there is to this feat. There's also heat & weight, neither of which Sonic or his friends can counter (this thing weighs 4 billion tonnes, & this site only rates Sonic Class 10). Being crushed is something that can be a serious threat even if someone has high durability, same as long falls, which are generally thought to be fatal even when characters have much higher showings."


>You're right, it is the heat of the star Infinite made, which we actually have calced at building level here on this wiki, so regardless, it's still a massive anti-feat. Also, we accept characters getting hurt or viewing large falls as dangerous as anti feats here, so that point is null.


"This is because it has to do with force as opposed to energy. My point is that there are a number of reasons why the sun feat shouldn't be considered an anti-feat, just an outlier for the sake of the plot, which happens pretty frequently in fiction."


>I mean we still scale Sonic and co above it, the point was to show that Sonic is riddled with narrative inconsistencies for his tier. Also, our wiki in particular attempts to stay true to how the narrative represents the characters, hence the tiering we have now.


"As for requiring a Phantom Ruby to counter it... I mean what else were they gonna do, punch it? It's still an illusion, it's not going to be affected so easily, & again, it's a sun, I don't think anyone could survive the heat, even if they were highly durable. Also, by your own logic, Rings would've kept Sonic from dying to something that would otherwise one-shot him, so any statements that Sonic downscales because he would die to a physical attack (not including black holes) contradicts your previous argument concerning Rings, further disproving what was easily the least viable argument of Revision 1."


>The rings argument doesn't matter because that implies the sun would instantly disappear upon making contact with the cast and not just suffocate them for an extended period of time, so regardless of how many rings they have, the star would eventually drain them and kill them instantly.


"Fragmenting a mountain: I've got no problem with that, though modern Sonic definitely has better feats than that 8-A calc."


If you're purely basing your arguments presented in that CRT alone, you should take a look at the Sonic the Hedgehog profile we have now, because we have the cast at 7-A.


"My alternative: Right now base form Sonic characters are rated Mountain level via the Little Planet feat... except there's no calc."


>A calculation isn't necessary for every potential feat, especially when said calc could possibly raise or lower the intended feat by the author. In this case, Little Planet was small enough that chains attached to mountains weren't tearing said mountains from the ground, thus the basis for our scaling.


"As for Modern Sonic, he no-sold a collision that shattered a massive base https://youtu.be/xb0pyrBkbcY?t=340 (watch till 5:55)"


>I doubt that would get any higher than our current rating.


"fought Iblis who induced a volcanic eruption https://youtu.be/dy20JQXLU7E?t=149,"


>Was the volcano active/close to eruption during the initial feat? Kinda hard to quantify said feat if we don't have that info.


"beat Erazor Djinn who drew in clouds https://youtu.be/ltXc6DcknXE?t=67"


>We don't scale the Arabian Nights to the regular universe in size, so this is unquantifiable


"There's also scaling to Eggman's machines, which should more or less scale to the tractor beams he used to tow planets across the universe in Sonic Colors https://youtu.be/XzmZQokUj5w?t=1598 (the planets are only continent-sized, but seem to have similar gravity to Earth, making them extremely dense & having high GBE). So Sonic should probably be City level to Multi-Continent level depending on what gets accepted."


>Well we accept mountain level, but this feat wouldn't be usable due to our Kinetic Energy standards. Furthermore, I don't know why we'd scale to robots specifically designed for the task to move planets large distances.


"Personally I rate PotS as Complex Universe level since the Eggmen claimed they would make the universe their plaything, & were superior to both sets of Emeralds, which the Eggmen planned on using to make their own world in Sonic Rush (more on that next)."


>Ironic how you complain about the statement we used for the PotS being too vague, but then use a statement equally as vague and interpretable. I'd actually say that this specific scenario is referring to reality warping due to the Chaos Emeralds consistent ability to warp space and time.


"What isn't a side effect is the outright statement that both sets of Emeralds could destroy the world by calling out to each other https://youtu.be/Iq01_F0Ch38?t=75. However, this is done when the Emerald sets are in close proximity, so that amp from earlier is likely still in play."


>"World" in context could very easily refer to the planet, which would make sense given how consistent the Emeralds are treated as a planetary threat. But if you mean the universe(s), that would literally refer to the Chaos and Sol Emeralds not being able to coexist together and causing their universes to merge and get erased.


"Furthermore, Eggman & Nega planned on using both sets of Emeralds to create their own world "beyond this dimension" (same vid, 3:10), implying that they were going to create their own universe similar in size to Sonic's & Blaze's (as mentioned in the PotS section, this is likely utilizing the combined strength of both sets of Emeralds, & so wouldn't scale to either set on its own)."


>That does not imply that their world would be of relative size to the primary universe, and I don't know why you made such a rash assumption. It's easily just as likely a world (Planet) or pocket dimension outside of either world.


"It's also worth noting that, because Sonic had the Emeralds, he was able to stop them from destroying the universe (same vid, 2:09 to 2:40)."


>Yes, because the entire plot is that the Sol Emeralds can't be outside their universe without merging it and causing both worlds to destroy themselves due to a rift in space-time that expands slowly overtime and grows bigger. This is not an acceptable feat under our standards due to the timeframe.


"Plus, he stops blocking after the armor is broken, which should imply that his body is less durable than his armor."


>Uhhh, on the contrary, that would actually suggest that Solaris' armor is <<< The core which makes no sense since the core is a metaphysical consciousness which realistically wouldn't have a durability.


"Even then, Super Silver is able to redirect Solaris' attacks, which should add to the reasons why they scale. Also I think Invulnerability is a NLF, but that's an argument for another day."


>That's attack reflection + invulnerability allowing his body to physically reflect the attacks back. Also, don't see how invulnerability is NLF when it's only up to a Low 2-B scale and it doesn't resist higher level attacks (I.e conceptual nuke).


Now for the anti-feats


"Chaos scaling: Nothing much to add here, but I will say I never liked the "destroy the world" statement as, if he did, then there wouldn't be a world to live on in the present. This either means "world" refers to the Echidna civilization, or he "attempted" to destroy the world, but was stopped when Tikal sealed him away. Also we don't know how long it'd take him."


>Or a surface wipe which would be High 6-A here. That would technically leave the planet in tact.


"ARK scaling: The Eclipse Cannon was made to destroy the planet using all 7 Chaos Emeralds. That doesn't mean it's the peak of the Emeralds' strength, it just means it's the peak of the ARK's strength, & something the Emeralds are capable of doing. Furthermore, the Eclipse Cannon was made for vengeance, negative purposes, & Eggman was going to use it for similarly bad things. In other words, this is just another feat for negative energy, & doesn't really affect Super Sonic."



Hard to believe it's the Emeralds at their casual/lowest level when it is very consistent that planetary is their peak. Just a few examples:


Black Doom uses chaos control here to warp the planet to the surface of Earth. Mind you, Black Doom literally amplified the Chaos Emeralds to do this feat.


Gerald Robotnik says that all seven Chaos Emeralds could destroy the planet.


Six Chaos Emeralds blew up a portion of the moon which shocked Sonic and co.


Eggman was surprised by all seven Chaos Emeralds being able to potentially destroy the planet.


And of course, there's the feats listed in my second part of the CRT.


"However, Dark Gaia is also one of the strongest things Eggman has ever had in his arsenal, describing it as having limitless energy https://youtu.be/UXK7HEbg1dg?t=2512, & seemingly valuing his power over the Emeralds (seeing as he yeets the Emeralds right after awakening Dark Gaia, though this could be PIS of a sort), potentially putting him on a similar or greater level than the Final Egg Blaster & Power of the Stars."


>Too bad that Dark Gaia is narratively only planet level, because he literally has to enter a coma to envelope and consume the entire planet. It would make no sense for him to be above planetary.


"There's also the fact that Dark Gaia gains power from negative energy, which would naturally conflict with Sonic's positive energy. After all, Super Sonic has never tired out in battle before. Plus, if Eggman yeeting the Emeralds is PIS, who's to say Sonic getting tired isn't as well?"



>I mean with what the narrative has consistently portrayed up to this point, Sonic was drained because he's consistently struggling with tier 5 threats, so that's definitely not PIS. Also, Eggman yeeting the Emeralds is moreso likely due to him not realizing the potential consequences or even the factor of restoring the Chaos Emeralds.


"The Space Colony ARK was going to destroy Earth using the Emeralds' negative energy: Planet level (Sonic Adventure 2) [Gerald also claims that the Emeralds could destroy the whole planet in Sonic Battle, adding further consistency]"


>Debunked this. Negative and positive energy are relative which is apparent by the very scene you tried to justify them being different in power. At best, Super forms get a Higher rating with more positive emotions since the power difference isn't notable enough.


"The Sol Emeralds cause Blaze's dimension to enter Sonic's: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [though it's possible that the dimension was moving of its own volition, not a lot of context is given]"


>Which is overtime and moving a universe isn't even a quantifiable feat on this wiki.


"Chaos & Sol Emeralds destroy the universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [the Emeralds were likely amping each other due to their close proximity, so this only scales to their combined power]"


>Via an overtime rift in the space-time continuum


"Chaos & Sol Emeralds create a universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [again, uses their combined strength]"


>Awful assumption to assume that Eggman and Nega were planning to make Eggman Land a universal place when their goals are consistently on a planetary scale.


"Chaos Emeralds stabilize the universe: Complex Universe level (Sonic Rush) [this was done through their own power, as the Sol Emeralds were drained, & the Egg Salamander was wielding their power]"


>Literally just space-time manipulation due to the circumstances of the merge.


"Super forms break Solaris' shells & redirect his attacks: Complex Universe level (Sonic 06)"


>His shell doesn't scale to anything. And it being stronger than the core is literally irrelevant when it's Solaris' consciousness.