User:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sandbox

"Okay but what is that supposed to mean? How can unlimited power be too high to scale to if you can't even say what Tier it equates to? You use the statement of unlimited power to justify the Emeralds' AP, but all you linked were planetary feats from all 7 Emeralds. How does any of this logically correlate to anything?"

>Unlimited power in this context is something far greater than what the cast can match through their own power. We obviously aren't saying that the Chaos Emeralds are truly unlimited in power, it's the characters explaining the sheer gap in power between themselves and the Chaos Emeralds.

"Except it does. Sonic & co. have fought & won against enemies powered by Emeralds, with or without striking their weak spots https://youtu.be/kENJWrdQ0L8?t=134 (Silver Sonic fight) https://youtu.be/mgPc609IMIU?t=870 (Eggmobile fight). Just swap "infinite power" for "unlimited power" & it describes what you're trying to justify."

>Even agreeing that they fought the source they consider superior to themselves, this still doesn't match with the example you gave due to the statement in question coming much later within the series. Also, the Silver Sonic and Eggman fight can be written off as inconsistencies given what is later established with Chaos Emeralds.

"Ignoring the fact that I couldn't find anything relevant on that page (it's too heckin big, why didn't you just tell me where to look or screenshot it?), that doesn't make sense. If you absorb a portion of someone's power, you scale to that portion."

>Except you wouldn't be able to quantify said portion of power without knowing its peak and having an exact number of what you're taking from it. For cases where you absorb X portion of source, you merely downscale from its power by an unquantifiable degree.

Also for the Ness page, just go to Post-Magicant key and read the justification for 2-A.

"I mean if you want, we can go back to using the 8-A feat, I'm more than okay with that, and I'll even calc the Sonic Heroes feat at that point too since I wouldn't be surprised if it gets 8-A or higher."

>I'll go ahead and concede to the mountain level stuff since I really don't care about that and frankly never agreed with it. I'm okay with using 8-A to 7-C based on the Heroes feat you sent which I calculated here.

"Right, so the game talking about space-time continuums & parallel universes being at stake, would suddenly shift gears & start talking about planetary destruction. Yeah, that makes sense from a "narrative" standpoint, doesn't it? Also the worlds wouldn't be erased by the Emeralds coexisting, the worlds would be erased by the worlds coexisting."

>In this sense, yes. World is consistently a term used by Eggman in reference to the planet as well, which he focuses his goals on to conquer and turn into Eggman Land.

"Again, the entire game is focused on space-time continuums & parallel universes, for them to suddenly switch gears to planet level betrays the very narrative you hold in such high regard."

>Even if I am to concede to "world" meaning universe in this context, your particular statement does not support Eggman and Nega creating an entire separate universe-sized place for their liking, but instead a place existing separate from both universes; that's not evidence for universe-sized creation.

"... how tho? That's like saying a shield or plate armor is less durable than human flesh. You guard your weak spot with something stronger than your weak spot. Also you ignored my point about his actual body under the armor, so this doesn't change my argument."

>Yes, but this armor literally has no reason to scale to Solaris' own AP to begin with since it's protecting a spot with no defined durability, thus not upscaling from anything. Even though it could be argued to be stronger than Solaris' core, it's not because it's superior to it, it's just that the core is a metaphysical consciousness that can't have a physical tier to begin with, completely different to armor for a human being.

"So his invulnerability is Low 2-B, but the Emeralds aren't. Right, because that's logic."

>Yes, you can have hax that are greater than your AP value in terms of tier value, it's actually not that shocking. We literally have character here with multiverse level abilities while also being on a far smaller physical scale than said abilities.

"Also Silver didn't "physically reflect the attacks", he used his Psychokinesis, which was amped by the Emeralds. Also, this is why I view Invulnerability as an NLF. If he can't survive higher level attacks, then he's not invulnerable, that's just the limit of what he can withstand, in other words, his DURABILITY. Invulnerability isn't real, it's just a durability amp. Also what does a nuke have to do with this?"

>That ironically makes your case worse since redirecting an attack via telekinesis can't be measured in AP and would be lifting strength at best. Also, if you're going to complain so much about invulnerability, make a CRT for it instead of explaining why it's bad here.

"Yeah but it wouldn't leave anything alive intact."

>Not necessarily. Take the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, most organisms didn't permanently die off, but simply evolved into modern day animals such as most species of birds. Further, Chaos uses water to destroy the surface, I'm pretty sure most sea life wouldn't be massively affected at the very moment of destruction.

"... that's not a planet. That's the Black Comet, & it's not even city-sized."

>Forgive me for the lack of context, I seem to have left out a crucial piece of supporting text. I was essentially comparing this feat to the one in Sonic Adventure 2 where Sonic and Shadow needed to use Chaos Control to stop a planetary threat. Black Doom's example is essentially a greater version of that with an amp needing to be used.

"I watched the video you linked, Eggman wasn't surprised at all. Plus, the Emeralds didn't have any stronger showings at that time, so if he WAS surprised, it wouldn't debunk future showings, because Eggman isn't aware of any stronger feats. (Also you linked me Gaia Colossus for some reason)"

>My bad, I accidentally sent the wrong scan. Here's what I meant to send. Assuming you plan to use the refute that Eggman hadn't seen planetary power up to that point, Sonic Adventure 1 already establishes the characters as planetary threats, so I wouldn't really fall back on Eggman not knowing its true potential.

"Sonic has struggled against a grand total of 1 Tier 5 threat. No showing has ever implied much, if any struggle on Super Sonic's part besides Dark Gaia. As for Eggman, that's fine, I'll accept it."

>Add the one in Sonic Adventures 2 to the list since that was also a planetary feat that required both Sonic and Shadow to use Chaos Control and supposedly killing Shadow via energy exhaustion.