Forum - Creation isn't AP

So let's talk about our current creation standards, shall we?

Now for the longest time the entire reason we allowed creation to be scalable to AP is under the idea of "Well if you create energy on that scale you'd logically need to withstand it or else your body would be vaporized." Most people that are anti creation feats pretty much never had a counter to this.

I today have found a very simple counter: This is a claim based off something objectively impossible irl.

So for those who don't know, you can't create energy from nothing, that breaks the first law conservation of energy:

https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/beginners-guide-to-aeronautics/first-law-conservation-of-energy/#:~:text=The%20conservation%20of%20energy%20is,is%20neither%20created%20nor%20destroyed.

The same applies to matter: https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/conservation-matter-during-physical-and-chemical-changes/

I say this to say we're trying to apply a logistic on something objectively impossible. Creation from nothing is by definition reality warping.

So with this in mind, how do we treat creation feats?

You get whatever tier regularly that isn't creation, creation itself shouldn't even get a tier since you can't create energy from nothing, so you're not using energy to do it.

This is somewhat minor in terms of a change in the page itself, but major in that it does affect any remaining profiles that were creation based that don't come from contextually omnipotent creator gods.

To quote specifically on the Creation vs Destruction page:

"Though there are cases where creation can be used as a viable way for tiering:

Creation in works where it's directly noted someone is using energy to do said feat would be something that would scale, as in this case the fiction is acknowledging that they're using the scalar quantity to create the object. Creation through the process of mass-energy conversion would be applicable as this directly utilizes energy. Scenarios such as a contextually omnipotent character creating a universe would be applicable as they can realistically o anything and are already in a way beyond the standard system we judge for energy. Along with this we can reasonably surmise that they would be able to destroy the universe they created."

So the first two are still viable, the issue is the flaw in reasoning for why they'd scale to physical stats. So the initial reasoning before this was the entire Newton's Third Law bit, which I guess the initial assumption was it can be used if it's proved to be done through energy, but the issue is Newton's Third Law doesn't ever account for creation, because it's objectively impossible under physics. The Newton's Third Law argument makes no sense for characters creating entire universes, when you're creating a universe, you're by proxy creating Newton's Third Law, so you don't even have it with you.

So basically all meeting the first two creation points would give you is a "X tier physically, X tier with Creation". Mass-Energy conversion may have very rare cases where it scales to your physicals but I honestly can't think of any fictions off the top of my head.

Also absorbing a macguffin, item, power, etcetera that amplifies you that meets the first two creation thing would not scale to your physical stats, they'd be a Power Source, so you wouldn't get physicals through that either.