Introduction
So this is a franchise that's going to be hell to work on due to the sheer number of games and alternate media while also having virtually thousands of characters by this point. If you were wondering why you haven't seen revisions for this, that's the reason. Even these revisions are just the first step.
Varies Tiering
The first issue I want to fix with this franchise is handling how their Varies tier works far better.
Currently the actual varies reasoning itself is pretty solid:
Varies: Absurdity (Mario and his friends are noted to be akin to a troupe of actors, taking on different roles depending on the game[1], with his gimmick being attributed to the same as Mickey Mouse, with their strength and skills even being shown to vary with it being shown with Mario being unable to take on Wario in his pixelated form due to the Wario using a different physiology to make him be unable to interact requiring him to turn to a similar physiology to beat him)
This pretty much establishes all the reasons for why they should vary, they're viewed as a troupe of actors that take on different roles depending on the game, the issue is, this was read far too literally most likely as an attempt to reconcile the current tiers and speed on the profile not being removed. What do I mean exactly by this? Well, like I said the varies reasoning itself is fine, the issue is what comes after it:
Varies: Absurdity (Snip). City Block level, up to Island level (Can harm Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Princess Peach)
Travel Speed: Varies: Absurdity. Supersonic to Faster Than Light
Before I describe the exact issue here, let me re-define Varies-Absurdity
"Varies: Absurdity
These are for characters that apply to the Cartoon Physics variety. A good example of this is Mario, other examples are cartoon gag characters that have no consistent strength and merely serve to be as strong as the joke needs them to be."
(This is also pending a slight rewrite also as absurdity goes beyond just the joke for many series)
Effectively, Varies: Absurdity does not really require other tiers or speed levels, the definition itself notes there's no consistent strength or speed and merely serve to be whatever is relevant to the plot, which fits the Mario series to a tea. The issue was that the way tiers were handled for Mario was to base it off feats per game and do a lowest to highest, this doesn't make much sense because that defeats the purpose fo varies. It also took too literally the "different roles" part as it implies when Mario is within a role he doesn't vary which is not true.
The other argument was that there were multiple statements of Mario being stronger or whatever which I would like to note again, you can still get stronger and function under Varies. Varies is an illogical concept, obviously irl no one can just randomly hop tiers based off random reason, so you can apply logic into it and it would still function.
The core factor of the Mario series is genuinely that he fits a role like Popeye or Mickey Mouse and follows that role, there are only specific archetypes that are consistent. In terms of pure physical strength Bowser and Donkey Kong will always be powerhouses with Mario either following suit or functioning as a Jack-Of-All Trades. Daisy is portrayed as stronger then Peach. Wario is always treated as a rival to Mario, and so on. These are the consistent aspects, their strengths vary depending on the story and if they need to fit a role and joke, so with this in mind, giving them a tier would honestly be ridiculous.
One of the main reasons why for this is that one would need to find a "consistent" (and like that we have already failed) tier for Mario and the cast for each and every game and installment and make a key for that. Now while that could sound fine on paper, it wouldn't be ideal at all and at the end of the day is a waste of time since what's even the point of a "Varies" then? If you're going to go that far to find a specific tier for each game then you have effectively set every chart that he could potentially be. Now the other issue is this is unrealistic because there will never be a "consistent" tier. Galaxy alone which people try to treat as the one with some of the biggest Mario feats you wouldn't even be able to realistically consistently put above tier 8.
Now the solution initially was just the City Block to Island level for everyone but this is, quite bluntly, a lazy answer and not really a truthful one either. He realistically could be much lower or higher then those tiers at any point and then the tiers would need to be updated endlessly depending on a new thing found in whatever media. The truth of the matter is everyone should just be rated as Varies: Absurdity alone with no tiers included, this functions as a much easier way to handle the Codex Statistics section without having to basically go full on fanon.
This also includes things like speed, and every other statistic basically.
Paint Abilities
This is just the Codex Statistics section mind you cause there also needs to be a discussion to how abilities are handled too, I'll just snippet from an old conversation I had with one of the former mods:
"Oh yeah a thought crossed my mind earlier
So for characters like Mario who vary, do you think it would be more accurate to categorize their hax by game? Like obviously there will be a handful of abilities that are universal to all of his appearances but then hax that is overly specific to one game or one series would be separated
It would probably be a pain in the ass to actually put into wikitext code but it would look neater"
So for the longest with abilities such as paint pretty much everyone was given "Paint Hax" where every attack removed paint from the opponent and then everyone had a resistance because they could take hits. Now in the game it comes from Paper Mario: Color Splash, this is perfectly fine, we directly see it in the gameplay. But what about games that came after and before it? Well for example, characters like Tolstar, or even more egregiously characters like Manky Kong (Donkey Kong) are given it because it's treated as a universal ability.
Now technically the argument behind it makes sense, as far as I remember with Color Splash's plot there is no world shift causing everything to act like this or a special power enemies and Mario receive so at the time it made sense for the abilities to apply universally. But if we accept that they vary per roles already, this would be a great example of where vary per roles should be used. It is extremely clear that other games do not have paint come out of the opponents when they're attacked and even further, paint itself can change rules as it functions completely differently in Super Mario Sunshine. I went to check all the scans too for paint on the page and it all links to Color Splash.
Though if I play devil's advocate and assume there may be another game (or somehow a sequel) that re-surfaces this concept then it would just be Color Splash and that theoretical game that uses it that way. So effectively paint hax should only apply to characters within Color Splash.
Vivian
She's peak, that's all.🏳️‍⚧️
Conclusion
Tiers should purely be varies and abilities need to be listed per game, the biggest culprit being paint hax as that's solely for Color Splash and it was applied to everyone and their mom.
For note this doesn't even touch 20% of the sheer number of updates that have to be done for Mario, this just makes it easier for when the revisions happen. I don't foresee them being in a state where they're fully "completed" for at the bare minimum a couple of years unless a surge of experts decide to help update the pages and profiles.
Edit: To better elaborate on the abilities per game portion, Mario would still keep universal abilities, it would be specific game stuff like paint hax that could be argued as a universal ability across the series would just be restricted to characters in Color Splash and other abilities with this similar concept would reflect that. So power ups would remain the same and such.
- ↑ "If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon," Miyamoto said. "They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games."
Posted by GiverOfThePeace (administrator) on 6 July 2026 at 18:08.
Edited by GiverOfThePeace (administrator) on 6 July 2026 at 21:25. |
|
