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Observation (Megami Tensei): Difference between revisions
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! colspan="2" style="background:#FF0000; border-radius:3.25px;" align="center"|<div style="margin-left:55px;">''Articles About Observation in Megami Tensei''</div> | |||
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|width="15%" style="background:grey; border-radius:3.25px;"|'''Series''' | |||
|[[Observation (Megami Tensei)|Shin Megami Tensei]] - [[Cognition|Persona]] | |||
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==Introduction== | ==Introduction== | ||
'''Observation''' is a concept in the main ''[[Megami Tensei]] multiverse'', it was a power given to humans by [[The Axiom]]. Characters from the ''Persona | '''Observation''' is a concept in the main ''[[Megami Tensei]] multiverse'', it was a power given to humans by [[The Axiom]]. Characters from the ''Persona universe'', have a similar ability known as [[Cognition]] or "Rumors". As described by [[Stephen (Shin Megami Tensei)|Stephen]], "observation" (sometimes described as "understanding") is the ability humans possess '''to give structure to the formless'''. In this instance, "observation" has nothing to do with sight, but rather human perception. It is an extension of the philosophical concept of "qualia," or individual, subjective experiences. For example, the sensation of seeing color is not easily communicated, yet something humanity possess a shared understanding of. Likewise, [[YHVH]] only exists because of this shared observation. | ||
[[YHVH]]'s Covenant was created by the Creator to bind humanity as slaves to God. This covenant makes humans too weak to not rely on his law or others, as well as making it difficult for people to make the concepts of gods be properly interpreted into words. This results in gods being distorted or easily reinterpreted into multiple faiths, such as Brigid becoming Saint Brigid, being demonized into forms like Beelzebub, or new gods born from the same concept such as Odin born from Dagda or Danu from Inanna. | [[YHVH]]'s Covenant was created by the Creator to bind humanity as slaves to God. This covenant makes humans too weak to not rely on his law or others, as well as making it difficult for people to make the concepts of gods be properly interpreted into words. This results in gods being distorted or easily reinterpreted into multiple faiths, such as Brigid becoming Saint Brigid, being demonized into forms like Beelzebub, or new gods born from the same concept such as Odin born from Dagda or Danu from Inanna. | ||
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==Abilities== | ==Abilities== | ||
*'''[[Observation]]:''' Varies between | *'''[[Observation]]:''' Varies between Unconscious Manifestation & Concious Manifestation; [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1194 Observation users consciously and unconsciously change truths around them creating Gods and demons from myths and rumors]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]]:''' [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 The power of observation, has the ability to make something without form, be certain and stable], [[The Axiom]], [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 tasked humans with observing the universe, allowing humans to assign an answer to phenomena without an answer]. Dagda [https://youtu.be/4haQ5T9DoWk?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=881 mentions humanity's "understanding" (observation) is what's locked him and Danu in physical forms]. Nanashi [https://youtu.be/tlSYsvtMFRE?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=1431 and his party's denial of] [[YHVH]] cast him into a demonic form. [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=2580 Gods and demons exist within a human's observation]. [https://youtu.be/Juughi_pBu4?list=PLZ-IDxWdqee_02DqvdXSdY3BjrLzAaxAY&t=75 Demons that also exist beyond death] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juughi_pBu4&list=PLZ-IDxWdqee_02DqvdXSdY3BjrLzAaxAY&index=23 can be killed by observation users]. | *'''[[Negation]]:''' [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 The power of observation, has the ability to make something without form, be certain and stable], [[The Axiom]], [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 tasked humans with observing the universe, allowing humans to assign an answer to phenomena without an answer]. Dagda [https://youtu.be/4haQ5T9DoWk?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=881 mentions humanity's "understanding" (observation) is what's locked him and Danu in physical forms]. Nanashi [https://youtu.be/tlSYsvtMFRE?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=1431 and his party's denial of] [[YHVH]] cast him into a demonic form. [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=2580 Gods and demons exist within a human's observation]. [https://youtu.be/Juughi_pBu4?list=PLZ-IDxWdqee_02DqvdXSdY3BjrLzAaxAY&t=75 Demons that also exist beyond death] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juughi_pBu4&list=PLZ-IDxWdqee_02DqvdXSdY3BjrLzAaxAY&index=23 can be killed by observation users]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[ | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Personal Nonexistence]]:''' Ayin Physiology; [https://youtu.be/uJ_XbZOW-zM?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ5zUG9S3xHvXTTg6nVoSKGO&t=144 Can kill] The White and demons, [https://youtu.be/wPbwO_83Vv0?t=146 who naturally exist within the expanse], [https://youtu.be/DeMAZuyBK2I?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ5zUG9S3xHvXTTg6nVoSKGO&t=2052 which the Monochrome Forest exists within the expanse], [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1101 a place that is eerily still, having no sound or smell, where even the ground itself feels unusual], [https://youtu.be/uJ_XbZOW-zM?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ5zUG9S3xHvXTTg6nVoSKGO&t=47 which demons naturally exist in]. The Forest also holds the White’s realm, [https://youtu.be/DeMAZuyBK2I?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ5zUG9S3xHvXTTg6nVoSKGO&t=1740 which is a vast, white space]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Incorporeality]]:''' Can harm and kill demons, [https://youtu.be/6vovyFwhBnU?t=636 who are beings made of data], [https://youtu.be/moAYKVTsmso?list=PLw7p9R_wZx5POaRAtktRwlkGYNQLUdlv4&t=909 that exist in a virtual world], [https://imgur.com/hBzsNkT along with being pure information]. [https://youtu.be/Xl2ZXAZeN3Q?t=19 With even the most] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8oNYHRuJw&t=9995s basic of objects in the verse existing as data]. | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Incorporeality]]:''' Can harm and kill demons, [https://youtu.be/6vovyFwhBnU?t=636 who are beings made of data], [https://youtu.be/moAYKVTsmso?list=PLw7p9R_wZx5POaRAtktRwlkGYNQLUdlv4&t=909 that exist in a virtual world], [https://imgur.com/hBzsNkT along with being pure information]. [https://youtu.be/Xl2ZXAZeN3Q?t=19 With even the most] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8oNYHRuJw&t=9995s basic of objects in the verse existing as data]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Abstract Existence]]:''' Type 1 | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Abstract Existence]]:''' Type 1; [https://youtu.be/4haQ5T9DoWk?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=881 Demons embody the phenomena and beliefs of humans, with their physical forms only being created due to humanity's observation locking them into these forms], [https://youtu.be/mU1bTqbGlDg?t=364 and their true forms existing as the phenomena and beliefs they reside in]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Acausality]]:''' | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Acausality]]:''' '''Causality Immunity;''' Can harm and kill demons, [https://youtu.be/wPbwO_83Vv0?t=146 who are natural residents of] The Expanse, [https://youtu.be/8kNv01GNrpE?t=104 a place that transcends the past, present, and future] [https://youtu.be/defQEm2-A3g?t=98 of the multiverse], [https://youtu.be/P-3HpFREL3E demons such as] Ishtar are capable of going into separate multiverses, [https://youtu.be/Rgz8XdoGSPQ along into the "real world"], [https://youtu.be/vt9F5SxUWZ4 demons such as] Demi-fiend, can exist in different universes asides from the original SMT 3 universe, [https://youtu.be/B3_OsqKXf1k?t=168 demons can exist even when the flow of time itself collapses and there is nothing left but a void]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Invulnerability]]:''' | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Invulnerability]]:''' '''Metaphysical Invulnerability;''' Observation users such as Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx5b3hFhTCQ&list=PLZ-IDxWdqee_02DqvdXSdY3BjrLzAaxAY&t=256s can harm demons with regular guns and swords], [https://twitter.com/attack_dat/status/1498153392740311047 even though demons when brought into corporeal forms cannot be harmed by conventional weaponry], along with military grade weaponry.<ref>[http://ddstranslation.blogspot.com/2007/03/part-2-chapter-4.html Digital Devil Story 2: Warrior of the Demon City Part 7, Chapter 2] "A deafening explosion broke Nakajima's concentration. A star-mark-adorned F-14 jet divebombed, slicing through the clouds. Nakajima all of a sudden found himself hovering over a battlefield. Below him was a hair-raising sight. An unbelieveably large lump of flesh, a hideous tower of raw meat, was slowly writhing. Its pale green, transparent gelatinous membrane was greedily expanding at its base. Several long black rivers flowed into it. No, what looked like black rivers were actually the hair of the people heading toward the tower. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people tore off their clothes and proceeded forward completely naked. Rapid explosions echoed through the air. The SDF's F14 jets scrambled from the 7th fleet were attacking, targeting the top of the tower so as to minimize injury to the humans below. A rain of bullets from an attack helicopter's machine guns sprayed through the air. Though that ammunition was capable of penetrating tank armor, it was absorbed without any resistance into the body of the ever-expanding otherworldly creature, as if it was laughing at the pathetic attack. It was almost as if it was trying to prove that any attacks against it would be futile."</ref> | ||
*'''[[Negation]] | *'''[[Resurrection]]''' '''[[Negation]]''' (Atemporal Resurrection) & '''[[Immortality Negation]]''' (Ageless, Life and Death Immunity, & Reliance [On Concept]):''' Ageless, Life and Death Immunity, & Reliance [On Concept]) & '''[[Resurrection]]''' ('''Atemporal Resurrection;''' [https://youtu.be/32JBhIqNhEM?t=410 It is noted by] Lucifer that only a human can kill gods and demons, [https://youtu.be/32JBhIqNhEM?t=426 that when gods and demons try to fight each other the most they can do is seal each other]. [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=2329 Permanently killed] [[YHVH]]. [https://youtu.be/uf4wQ8MsBgc?t=1050 All demons are reliant on the observation of humans to keep them existing], [https://youtu.be/Py_0MoClWdY?t=52 including even nonexistent demons such as] The White, [https://youtu.be/uf4wQ8MsBgc?t=345 allowing them to come back even if they’re erased from existence and nonexistence]. | ||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Dimensionless Existence]]:''' | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Dimensionless Existence]]:''' Non-Dimensional; [https://youtu.be/4haQ5T9DoWk?list=PLDwjEcGRHRZ7pABsyzZ6bOKGshMroT93E&t=881 Demons only have "forms" due to the observation of humanity] [https://youtu.be/CF9IHP0s0B4?list=PLAV-xzjVBR0UtRCaE75gwmT465Rq_PTQ0&t=1053 with even some demons being in the lowest form of humanity's observation making them unseeable without help], the "true forms" of demons are in truth [https://youtu.be/6064HUSmlT8?list=PLAV-xzjVBR0UtRCaE75gwmT465Rq_PTQ0&t=1150 without the concept of form], without observation [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 they are not certain nor stable], [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1155 are a phenomena without an answer] [https://youtu.be/i1YhCwcb3GM?t=1194 and are unbound by concepts such as truth] [https://youtu.be/defQEm2-A3g?t=1433 completely unshaped by reality]. [https://youtu.be/spraSlJLBXc?list=PLAV-xzjVBR0UtRCaE75gwmT465Rq_PTQ0&t=525 Demons under their observation forms embody concepts such as infinity] which they are free from in their true forms. | ||
*'''[[Negation]]''' of '''[[Timeless Physiology]]:''' [https://youtu.be/wPbwO_83Vv0?t=146 Observation allows one to tag demons, who natural residents of] The Expanse, [https://youtu.be/8kNv01GNrpE?t=104 a place that transcends the past, present, and future] [https://youtu.be/defQEm2-A3g?t=98 of the multiverse]. | |||
*'''[[Negation]] of [[Omnipresence]]:''' [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=1472 Observation can reduce one into a singular being], [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=443 when the being was originally one that was everywhere within reality]. | *'''[[Negation]] of [[Omnipresence]]:''' [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=1472 Observation can reduce one into a singular being], [https://youtu.be/dFuKLmruIzQ?t=443 when the being was originally one that was everywhere within reality]. | ||
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==References== | ==References== | ||
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Latest revision as of 19:32, 11 September 2024
"Mature Content" | |
This character or verse has mature themes and concepts, thus those of young age are ill-advised to look through these. |
Articles About Observation in Megami Tensei
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Series | Shin Megami Tensei - Persona |
Introduction
Observation is a concept in the main Megami Tensei multiverse, it was a power given to humans by The Axiom. Characters from the Persona universe, have a similar ability known as Cognition or "Rumors". As described by Stephen, "observation" (sometimes described as "understanding") is the ability humans possess to give structure to the formless. In this instance, "observation" has nothing to do with sight, but rather human perception. It is an extension of the philosophical concept of "qualia," or individual, subjective experiences. For example, the sensation of seeing color is not easily communicated, yet something humanity possess a shared understanding of. Likewise, YHVH only exists because of this shared observation.
YHVH's Covenant was created by the Creator to bind humanity as slaves to God. This covenant makes humans too weak to not rely on his law or others, as well as making it difficult for people to make the concepts of gods be properly interpreted into words. This results in gods being distorted or easily reinterpreted into multiple faiths, such as Brigid becoming Saint Brigid, being demonized into forms like Beelzebub, or new gods born from the same concept such as Odin born from Dagda or Danu from Inanna.
The Divine Powers' goal for the new universe and humanity's souls is to create a great singularity with Krishna, becoming a Mini-Axiom who then distributes the souls equally amongst the gods. Their goal is to make a world where the gods are all worshiped equally. Krishna's personal goal, in doing this, is to eventually teach humanity to become part of a Great Singularity possibly a reference to the Hindu version of Enlightenment, in which humans surpass the three worlds (heaven, hell, and earth) to become one with the all-pervading existence.
Dagda and the Anarchy-Neutral route's ultimate goal is to make Observation redundant by transforming humanity into gods with an inherent understanding of the world so that they will never rely on others as a crutch and be more individualistic and free. Gods would then remain as their original form as part of The Axiom and nature, never properly returning, though it does not stop demons of other universes from appearing. Due to the fundamental changes brought to humanity under their Creator Nanashi and their mother Goddess, this strongly advocates transhumanism.
In the final battle with YHVH in YHVH's Universe he is degraded via Observation by denying his truths, demonizing him into a mere demon who reveals that he seeks nothing more than worship and praise, the real truth behind all his actions.
Abilities
- Observation: Varies between Unconscious Manifestation & Concious Manifestation; Observation users consciously and unconsciously change truths around them creating Gods and demons from myths and rumors.
- Negation: The power of observation, has the ability to make something without form, be certain and stable, The Axiom, tasked humans with observing the universe, allowing humans to assign an answer to phenomena without an answer. Dagda mentions humanity's "understanding" (observation) is what's locked him and Danu in physical forms. Nanashi and his party's denial of YHVH cast him into a demonic form. Gods and demons exist within a human's observation. Demons that also exist beyond death can be killed by observation users.
- Negation of Personal Nonexistence: Ayin Physiology; Can kill The White and demons, who naturally exist within the expanse, which the Monochrome Forest exists within the expanse, a place that is eerily still, having no sound or smell, where even the ground itself feels unusual, which demons naturally exist in. The Forest also holds the White’s realm, which is a vast, white space.
- Negation of Incorporeality: Can harm and kill demons, who are beings made of data, that exist in a virtual world, along with being pure information. With even the most basic of objects in the verse existing as data.
- Negation of Abstract Existence: Type 1; Demons embody the phenomena and beliefs of humans, with their physical forms only being created due to humanity's observation locking them into these forms, and their true forms existing as the phenomena and beliefs they reside in.
- Negation of Acausality: Causality Immunity; Can harm and kill demons, who are natural residents of The Expanse, a place that transcends the past, present, and future of the multiverse, demons such as Ishtar are capable of going into separate multiverses, along into the "real world", demons such as Demi-fiend, can exist in different universes asides from the original SMT 3 universe, demons can exist even when the flow of time itself collapses and there is nothing left but a void.
- Negation of Invulnerability: Metaphysical Invulnerability; Observation users such as Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV, can harm demons with regular guns and swords, even though demons when brought into corporeal forms cannot be harmed by conventional weaponry, along with military grade weaponry.[1]
- Resurrection Negation (Atemporal Resurrection) & Immortality Negation (Ageless, Life and Death Immunity, & Reliance [On Concept]): Ageless, Life and Death Immunity, & Reliance [On Concept]) & Resurrection (Atemporal Resurrection; It is noted by Lucifer that only a human can kill gods and demons, that when gods and demons try to fight each other the most they can do is seal each other. Permanently killed YHVH. All demons are reliant on the observation of humans to keep them existing, including even nonexistent demons such as The White, allowing them to come back even if they’re erased from existence and nonexistence.
- Negation of Dimensionless Existence: Non-Dimensional; Demons only have "forms" due to the observation of humanity with even some demons being in the lowest form of humanity's observation making them unseeable without help, the "true forms" of demons are in truth without the concept of form, without observation they are not certain nor stable, are a phenomena without an answer and are unbound by concepts such as truth completely unshaped by reality. Demons under their observation forms embody concepts such as infinity which they are free from in their true forms.
- Negation of Timeless Physiology: Observation allows one to tag demons, who natural residents of The Expanse, a place that transcends the past, present, and future of the multiverse.
- Negation of Omnipresence: Observation can reduce one into a singular being, when the being was originally one that was everywhere within reality.
- Negation of Omniscience: Humanity's observation of YHVH defies his words and truths, YHVH is an all-knowing being that sets the fate of the entire world.
- Irreversible Damage: Nyarlathotep used a spear conjured by humanity's observation of a wound that can never heal to inflict a blow that could not be healed even by the strongest healing magic.
- Existence Grounding: Observation users can bring a demon or god's existence down to their level, such as when Flynn and his party's denial of YHVH as the one true god brought him to the level of a demon, massively weakening him. Dagda mentions humanity's "understanding" (observation) is what's locked him and Danu in physical forms.
- Power Bestowal: Gods & demons are granted by humans observations of them. To the point that a gods power is based off if humans still remember them. Observation has the ability to resurrect someone and give them strength to the point where they can fight Stephen with The Axioms powers].
- Power Nullification: Observation allows one to remove one's defenses and strengths along with some of their innate abilities.
- Reality Warping: Stephen stated that humans have the power to shape the world. Philemon states people have tremendous power in their souls over the flow of reality, with their strong wills being able to change reality.
- Conceptual Manipulation, Subjective Reality, & Creation: The power of observation, has the ability to make something without form, be certain and stable, The Axiom, tasked humans with observing the universe, allowing humans to assign an answer to phenomena without an answer.
- Truth Manipulation: Humans have the ability to change the answer they've found into faith, and eventually into truth. Observation debased YHVH's truths, removing him from everyone's mind, killing him.
- Memory Manipulation: Through the power of observation, the Persona 2 Innocent Sin cast were able to erase their meeting during a summer evening, creating an alternate timeline.
- Perspective Manipulation: The power of observation allowed humans to change the very design of the Abyss [the Expanse] to what they perceive it as[2].
- Statistics Amplification & Resurrection: Observation has the ability to resurrect someone and give them strength to the point where they can fight Stephen with The Axioms powers. Isamu was able to survive a hit from Thor despite being a regular human.
- Statistics Reduction: Flynn and his party's denial of YHVH as the one true god brought him to the level of a demon, massively weakening him. One's will and beliefs can lower even a nonexistent entity's (such as The White) stats. Gods powers can be greatly reduced if they're forgotten. Observation allowed Aleph and his party to harm YHVH who stated as they were his creations, there blades cannot harm him, yet they were able to.
Resistances
- Memory Manipulation: Refusal to accept one's memory being erased allows their memory to stay even from a universal reset.
Trivia
- The concept of Observation and Understanding was once brought up in an interview for Shin Megami Tensei II to explain how the Expanse inspired Jewish Mysticism and the Kabbalah.
- Though it is stated to be a specific ability only Humans have, the three insane Cardinal Archangels from Shin Megami Tensei II observe a "Fake YHVH" into existence through their collective madness. The Final Bosses of DemiKids Dark Version, Light Version, and Devil Children Fire/Ice Book were born from feeding off the collective suffering of humans and demons alike and sought to fuel their existence by spreading more suffering to both species.
- Like Magnetite, Observation has a real-world equivalent, in the Observer effect of quantum mechanics, where observing something changes it, such as with Wave function collapse, where the act of observation causes reality to "choose" between several possibilities which all existed simultaneously prior to being observed.
- The Persona series possesses an equivalent to Observation - "Cognition," which is a term and major plot point in Persona 5, where mental perceptions can warp one's desires and create the dungeons known as Palaces.
References
- ↑ Digital Devil Story 2: Warrior of the Demon City Part 7, Chapter 2 "A deafening explosion broke Nakajima's concentration. A star-mark-adorned F-14 jet divebombed, slicing through the clouds. Nakajima all of a sudden found himself hovering over a battlefield. Below him was a hair-raising sight. An unbelieveably large lump of flesh, a hideous tower of raw meat, was slowly writhing. Its pale green, transparent gelatinous membrane was greedily expanding at its base. Several long black rivers flowed into it. No, what looked like black rivers were actually the hair of the people heading toward the tower. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people tore off their clothes and proceeded forward completely naked. Rapid explosions echoed through the air. The SDF's F14 jets scrambled from the 7th fleet were attacking, targeting the top of the tower so as to minimize injury to the humans below. A rain of bullets from an attack helicopter's machine guns sprayed through the air. Though that ammunition was capable of penetrating tank armor, it was absorbed without any resistance into the body of the ever-expanding otherworldly creature, as if it was laughing at the pathetic attack. It was almost as if it was trying to prove that any attacks against it would be futile."
- ↑ Narisawa: Now, let’s change the subject. I’d like to talk about the Abyss or the demon areas. This time the Abyss is designed like the Sephiroth Tree. We need to read the strategy guide in order to understand that, but is this how you originally envisioned it?
Okada: I said earlier that Tokyo Millenium and the Underworld are in contrast but generally speaking, their opposite is the Abyss. It’s like saying Lucifer is Satan’s opposite.
Narisawa: Kabbalah is a secret formula that belongs to humans, so how do you explain Lucifer using it to design the Abyss?
Itou: That is why we have opposites. We can consider the possibility of humans being the ones who were influenced. We don’t know whether they saw the Abyss’s design after a near-death experience or were telepathically struck by some waves, but if pushed to say, the Kabbalah that’s transmitted through the world right now could be a representation of what they “saw”.
Narisawa: It’s a reversal.