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User:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sandbox: Difference between revisions

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"Okay but what is that supposed to mean? How can unlimited power be too high to scale to if you can't even say what Tier it equates to? You use the statement of unlimited power to justify the Emeralds' AP, but all you linked were planetary feats from all 7 Emeralds. How does any of this logically correlate to anything?"
[[File:Valere Sea of Stars Official Render.png|right|425px]]
{{Quote|I wouldn’t overthink it. Prophecies are not swayed by the attention we give them.|Valere to [[Zale (Sea of Stars)|Zale]]}}
==Background==
'''Valere''' is one of the main protagonists of ''Sea of Stars'' and is a Solstice Warrior. Born on the Winter Solstice, Valere trained most of her life to become a follower of Luana and would become a lunar monk. Upon finishing their training, Valere and [[Zale (Sea of Stars)|Zale]] were sent to Wraith Island to meet up with fellow remaining Solstice Warriors, [[Headmaster Moraine]], [[Erlina (Sea of Stars)|Erlina]], and [[Brugaves (Sea of Stars)|Brugaves]], to defeat the Dweller of Woe.


{| class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed wikitable"
! style="text-align:left;" |This dropdown contains the synopsis of Valere's story. Read at your own risk as you may be spoiled otherwise!
|-
|<div class="scrollable" style="overflow:auto; max-height:600px; width:{{{width|100%}}}; -moz-border-radius-topleft:0.5em; border:1px solid #AAAAAA; padding-left:0.5em; background:transparent;">
<font size=5> '''Early Life''' </font size>
<br>
Valere was born on the Winter Solstice that took place shortly after the battle between the Solstice Warriors and Dweller of Strife, and was one of two Solstice Children born. Valere grew up and was raised for nearly the first decade of her life in the secluded town of Mooncradle, where she would train with Zale and Garl around the town in preparation for their Solstice Training.


After an expedition outside of Mooncradle, [[Brugaves (Sea of Stars)|Brugaves]] and [[Erlina (Sea of Stars)|Erlina]] greet Valere and Zale and test their physical and magical growth before meeting with [[Headmaster Moraine (Sea of Stars)|Headmaster Moraine]]. This encourages Valere, Zale, and Garl to approach the Forbidden Cavern Gate and open it with their small amount of magic.


>Unlimited power in this context is something far greater than what the cast can match through their own power. We obviously aren't saying that the Chaos Emeralds are truly unlimited in power, it's the characters explaining the sheer gap in power between themselves and the Chaos Emeralds.
Having successfully opened the gateway entrance, the three children enter the cavern with the hopes of impressing the Headmaster. This unfortunately proved to be a big mistake, as monsters swarmed and overwhelmed the three. In an attempt to protect Zale while he tried to use offensive magic, Garl was impaled in the eye by one of the hostile creatures, permanently blinding his left eye.
</div>
|}
==General Information==
'''Name:''' Valere


'''Origin:''' [[The Messenger#Sea_of_Stars|Sea of Stars]]


'''First Appearance:''' Sea of Stars


"Except it does. Sonic & co. have fought & won against enemies powered by Emeralds, with or without striking their weak spots https://youtu.be/kENJWrdQ0L8?t=134 (Silver Sonic fight) https://youtu.be/mgPc609IMIU?t=870 (Eggmobile fight). Just swap "infinite power" for "unlimited power" & it describes what you're trying to justify."
'''Latest Appearance:'''


'''Company:''' Sabotage Studio


'''Creator:''' Bryce Kho


>Even agreeing that they fought the source they consider superior to themselves, this still doesn't match with the example you gave due to the statement in question coming much later within the series. Also, the Silver Sonic and Eggman fight can be written off as inconsistencies given what is later established with Chaos Emeralds.
'''Sex:''' Female


'''Sexuality:''' '''Unknown'''


'''Pronouns:''' She/Her


"Ignoring the fact that I couldn't find anything relevant on that page (it's too heckin big, why didn't you just tell me where to look or screenshot it?), that doesn't make sense. If you absorb a portion of someone's power, you scale to that portion."
'''Story Role:''' Hero/Main Protagonist


'''Age:''' 18-19


'''Residence:''' Mooncradle


>Except you wouldn't be able to quantify said portion of power without knowing its peak and having an exact number of what you're taking from it. For cases where you absorb X portion of source, you merely downscale from its power by an unquantifiable degree.
'''Classification:''' Lunar Monk, Luana


'''Species:''' Human, Winter Solstice Child


'''[[State of Being]]:''' '''Regular''' prior to her ascension, '''[[Enlightenment]]''' after her ascension


Also for the Ness page, just go to Post-Magicant key and read the justification for 2-A.
'''[[Physiology]]:''' '''Humanoid Physiology'''


'''Occupation:''' Solstice Warrior, Lunar Monk, Follower of Luana


'''Affiliations:'''


"I mean if you want, we can go back to using the 8-A feat, I'm more than okay with that, and I'll even calc the Sonic Heroes feat at that point too since I wouldn't be surprised if it gets 8-A or higher."
'''Enemies:'''


'''[[Status]]:''' Has been both '''Alive''' and '''Deceased''' ([https://youtu.be/jIUMZfTeMh8?si=nRLDJFGA_CZny2nd&t=7465 Due to] [[Resh'an]] [https://youtu.be/nIJ0kak0PdY?si=YQb1KyxLbcOPDVMd&t=7129 having split the timeline into an infinitely expanding plethora of alternate timelines], [https://youtu.be/jIUMZfTeMh8?si=nRLDJFGA_CZny2nd&t=7356 there exist countless worlds where Valere and Zale failed to defeat the Dweller of Strife in combat], [https://youtu.be/nIJ0kak0PdY?si=YQb1KyxLbcOPDVMd&t=6645 with them only having stalemated it due to Resh'an getting involved in their conflict], [https://youtu.be/e8xp0hONji0?si=G24e0QJJ7W6PYFVf&t=4801 which furthered their journey and allowed them to ascend into Solen and Luana])


'''[[Alignment]]:''' '''Neutral Good''' ([https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=cDUp0hI055anwhV0&t=2826 Valere is one who follows the path of Luana], [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=yt25TjUED2156qJN&t=2252 and thus follows her intended destiny as a Solstice Warrior to forever protect her world]. [https://youtu.be/jIUMZfTeMh8?si=nKXV1qxXoER6B2WV&t=7349 She will often put her own life on the line in order to save others], [https://youtu.be/dZGEilGoCn4?si=aErqTjYD0haZIEPB&t=6459 and even crossed the Sea of Stars in order to save Seraï's world and face the Fleshmancer]. [https://youtu.be/oKXutBL0UL8?si=x6afaj92MG9MrOJA&t=5310 Helped relocate the people of Port Town of Brisk when the Dweller of Strife was resurrected and saved countless lives]. [https://youtu.be/6yI1OII1AW4?si=IjDPepe3z_O66svM Defeated every dweller] [https://youtu.be/G-5Jn_zGys4?si=QrtcQ82dc92wvTme in her own world] [https://youtu.be/19pAsZ8VrDY?si=2yVdd8Y6VrFh8w3o and Seraï's world], [https://youtu.be/jIUMZfTeMh8?si=nKXV1qxXoER6B2WV&t=7349 therefore saving the lives of everyone from their terror had they turned into World Eaters]. [https://youtu.be/dZGEilGoCn4?si=AGcE9dmxZGoL5cws&t=720 Alongside Garl in his dying moments], [https://youtu.be/dZGEilGoCn4?si=-YyZchWq8ulHVATV&t=5119 Valere helped wake and pacify The Sleeper from its destructive ways])


>I'll go ahead and concede to the mountain level stuff since I really don't care about that and frankly never agreed with it. I'm okay with using 8-A to 7-C based on the Heroes feat you sent [https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MrWarnerTheGreat/Sonic_hates_Eggman_a_little_too_much which I calculated here].
'''[[Protection Level]]:''' '''Multiversal Protector''' (Not only defeated all the Dwellers in her timeline, but also bested the Dweller of Dread in Seraï's timeline, and later bested the Fleshmancer who is a threat to the entire multiverse)


==Codex Statistics==
'''Key:''' '''Child''' | '''Pre-Awakening''' |'''Post-Awakening''' | '''Luana'''


'''[[Tiering System|Tier]]:''' '''10-C''', '''Higher''' with Magic | At least '''9-B''', '''Higher''' with Magic, '''Unknown''' when empowered by a solar eclipse | '''5-B''', '''Higher''' when transformed | '''Unknown'''


"Right, so the game talking about space-time continuums & parallel universes being at stake, would suddenly shift gears & start talking about planetary destruction. Yeah, that makes sense from a "narrative" standpoint, doesn't it? Also the worlds wouldn't be erased by the Emeralds coexisting, the worlds would be erased by the worlds coexisting."
'''[[Dimensionality]]:''' '''3-D'''


'''[[Attack Potency]]:''' '''Below Average Human level''' ([https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=7HCM7disgtYJe8AF&t=900 At this point in her life], [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=RkRmvjJoOqw8qENM&t=748 Valere has only just begun using magic and is physically just a young girl]), '''Higher''' with magic ([https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=3_tRn6ZJXiZUuRx0&t=5943 Magic in Sea of Stars can amplify the user's power output in combat]) | At least '''Wall level''' ([https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=obFIGt2ZUwvsggA9&t=1764 Valere and Zale have now trained for nearly a decade of their lives] [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=YqU0wBa9j3LSF9yV&t=6677 and have grown far stronger to the point of being deemed Solstice Warriors by the Elder Mist], [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=oNYBcMmcqS7N9MJc&t=3412 and were able to fight and defeat the Bosslug which can shake the entire cavern]. [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=vxUII2VjU4D7Bqsl&t=4142 Alongside Garl], [https://youtu.be/aj8RttIxhfE?si=Lzc6eoJlMzqVmUXd&t=5860 Valere and Zale were able to best Malkomud and his pet salamander Rockie], [https://youtu.be/aj8RttIxhfE?si=RIjvgpIBQyGYiAOh&t=4447 the latter of which can burrow through rock at high speeds]. [https://youtu.be/e8xp0hONji0?si=nHkDRgAVx0i-hNWH&t=1646 Can destroy reinforced metal walls with little difficulty]), '''Higher''' with [[Magic|magic]] ([https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=XlBnPMK2TSlobjF0&t=5786 After learning how to "Use magic without using magic"], [https://youtu.be/7fFx6Emvdso?si=3_tRn6ZJXiZUuRx0&t=5943 Valere learned how to physically empower and amplify her power in combat]) | '''Planet level''' ([https://youtu.be/e8xp0hONji0?si=8dbuGU9CuyR7Kqcb&t=4799 By this point in her journey], [https://youtu.be/e8xp0hONji0?si=4Q0Is0mgIlm6KKgv&t=3912 Valere and Zale have become fully connected to their potential and are powerful enough to best the Dweller of Dread without an eclipse to increase their power]. [https://youtu.be/e8xp0hONji0?si=BxkaT68s_UQV4tsK&t=4822 She and Zale together were able to pull the moon out of the ocean and back into space]. [https://youtu.be/f5-AWPdiMfQ?si=SYF5RpRRKmyo-IlF&t=4210 Defeated the Fleshmancer in the form of a World Eater], [ which are capable of consuming entire planets]) | '''Unknown''' ([ It is stated that once a Solstice Warrior ascends], [ their timeline is permanently saved with no force being able to oppose them], [ with the only known exception being to weaken their influence through the people's belief])


'''[[Durability]]:'''


>In this sense, yes. World is consistently a term used by Eggman in reference to the planet as well, which he focuses his goals on to conquer and turn into Eggman Land.
'''[[Striking Strength]]:'''


'''[[Lifting Strength]]:'''


'''[[Speed|Travel Speed]]:'''


"Again, the entire game is focused on space-time continuums & parallel universes, for them to suddenly switch gears to planet level betrays the very narrative you hold in such high regard."
'''[[Speed|Combat Speed]]:'''


'''[[Reactions|Reaction Speed]]:'''


'''[[Stamina]]:'''


>Even if I am to concede to "world" meaning universe in this context, your particular statement does not support Eggman and Nega creating an entire separate universe-sized place for their liking, but instead a place existing separate from both universes; that's not evidence for universe-sized creation.
'''[[Range]]:'''


'''[[Intelligence]]:'''
<tabber>
|-|General Intelligence=


|-|Social Intelligence=


"... how tho? That's like saying a shield or plate armor is less durable than human flesh. You guard your weak spot with something stronger than your weak spot. Also you ignored my point about his actual body under the armor, so this doesn't change my argument."
|-|Strategic Intelligence=


|-|Combat Intelligence=


</tabber>
----
== [[Powers and Techniques]] ==


>Yes, but this armor literally has no reason to scale to Solaris' own AP to begin with since it's protecting a spot with no defined durability, thus not upscaling from anything. Even though it could be argued to be stronger than Solaris' core, it's not because it's superior to it, it's just that the core is a metaphysical consciousness that can't have a physical tier to begin with, completely different to armor for a human being.
----
===[[Equipment]]===
<tabber>
|-|Standard=
{{#tag:Tabber|
{{!}}-{{!}}On Hand=


{{!}}-{{!}}Equipment=


}}
|-|Optional=
{{#tag:Tabber|
{{!}}-{{!}}Optional Equipment=


"So his invulnerability is Low 2-B, but the Emeralds aren't. Right, because that's logic."
{{!}}-{{!}}One Use Equipment=


}}
|-|Discarded=


</tabber>
----


>Yes, you can have hax that are greater than your AP value in terms of tier value, it's actually not that shocking. We literally have character here with [[Scott Pilgrim|multiverse level abilities]] while also being on a far smaller physical scale than said abilities.
===Notable Techniques===
----
==Other==


'''Standard Tactics:'''


'''Weaknesses:'''


"Also Silver didn't "physically reflect the attacks", he used his Psychokinesis, which was amped by the Emeralds. Also, this is why I view Invulnerability as an NLF. If he can't survive higher level attacks, then he's not invulnerable, that's just the limit of what he can withstand, in other words, his DURABILITY. Invulnerability isn't real, it's just a durability amp. Also what does a nuke have to do with this?"
==Explanations==


==Miscellaneous Feats==
<tabber>
|-|Attack Potency=


|-|Durability=


>That ironically makes your case worse since redirecting an attack via telekinesis can't be measured in AP and would be lifting strength at best. Also, if you're going to complain so much about invulnerability, make a CRT for it instead of explaining why it's bad here.
|-|Lifting Strength=


|-|Striking Strength=


|-|Speed=
{{#tag:tabber|
{{!}}-{{!}}Travel Speed=


"Yeah but it wouldn't leave anything alive intact."
{{!}}-{{!}}Combat Speed=


{{!}}-{{!}}Reaction Speed=


}}


>Not necessarily. Take the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, most organisms didn't permanently die off, but simply evolved into modern day animals such as most species of birds. Further, Chaos uses water to destroy the surface, I'm pretty sure most sea life wouldn't be massively affected at the very moment of destruction.
|-|Intelligence=


|-|Movement=


|-|Agility=


"... that's not a planet. That's the Black Comet, & it's not even city-sized."
|-|Miscellaneous=


</tabber>


==Trivia==


>Forgive me for the lack of context, I seem to have left out a crucial piece of supporting text. I was essentially comparing this feat to the one in [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdUm?t=19m38s Sonic Adventure 2 where Sonic and Shadow] [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdU?t=1m35s needed to use Chaos Control to stop a planetary threat]. Black Doom's example is essentially a greater version of that with an amp needing to be used.
==Gallery==


==Battle Records==
<tabber>
|-|Victories=
None.


|-|Losses=
None.


"I watched the video you linked, Eggman wasn't surprised at all. Plus, the Emeralds didn't have any stronger showings at that time, so if he WAS surprised, it wouldn't debunk future showings, because Eggman isn't aware of any stronger feats. (Also you linked me Gaia Colossus for some reason)"
|-|Inconclusive=
None.
</tabber>


 
==References==
 
<nowiki>{{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}}</nowiki>
>My bad, I accidentally sent the wrong scan. [https://youtu.be/NbhxkGJaOHU?t=12m55s Here's what I meant to send]. Assuming you plan to use the refute that Eggman hadn't seen planetary power up to that point, Sonic Adventure 1 already establishes the characters as planetary threats, so I wouldn't really fall back on Eggman not knowing its true potential.
|}
 
 
 
"Sonic has struggled against a grand total of 1 Tier 5 threat. No showing has ever implied much, if any struggle on Super Sonic's part besides Dark Gaia. As for Eggman, that's fine, I'll accept it."
 
 
 
>Add the one in Sonic Adventures 2 to the list since that was also a planetary feat that required both Sonic and Shadow to use Chaos Control and supposedly [https://youtu.be/Wz1QTPdnTdU?t=20m06s killing Shadow via energy exhaustion].

Latest revision as of 06:00, 3 June 2024

I wouldn’t overthink it. Prophecies are not swayed by the attention we give them.
~ Valere to Zale

Background

Valere is one of the main protagonists of Sea of Stars and is a Solstice Warrior. Born on the Winter Solstice, Valere trained most of her life to become a follower of Luana and would become a lunar monk. Upon finishing their training, Valere and Zale were sent to Wraith Island to meet up with fellow remaining Solstice Warriors, Headmaster Moraine, Erlina, and Brugaves, to defeat the Dweller of Woe.

This dropdown contains the synopsis of Valere's story. Read at your own risk as you may be spoiled otherwise!

Early Life
Valere was born on the Winter Solstice that took place shortly after the battle between the Solstice Warriors and Dweller of Strife, and was one of two Solstice Children born. Valere grew up and was raised for nearly the first decade of her life in the secluded town of Mooncradle, where she would train with Zale and Garl around the town in preparation for their Solstice Training.

After an expedition outside of Mooncradle, Brugaves and Erlina greet Valere and Zale and test their physical and magical growth before meeting with Headmaster Moraine. This encourages Valere, Zale, and Garl to approach the Forbidden Cavern Gate and open it with their small amount of magic.

Having successfully opened the gateway entrance, the three children enter the cavern with the hopes of impressing the Headmaster. This unfortunately proved to be a big mistake, as monsters swarmed and overwhelmed the three. In an attempt to protect Zale while he tried to use offensive magic, Garl was impaled in the eye by one of the hostile creatures, permanently blinding his left eye.

General Information

Name: Valere

Origin: Sea of Stars

First Appearance: Sea of Stars

Latest Appearance:

Company: Sabotage Studio

Creator: Bryce Kho

Sex: Female

Sexuality: Unknown

Pronouns: She/Her

Story Role: Hero/Main Protagonist

Age: 18-19

Residence: Mooncradle

Classification: Lunar Monk, Luana

Species: Human, Winter Solstice Child

State of Being: Regular prior to her ascension, Enlightenment after her ascension

Physiology: Humanoid Physiology

Occupation: Solstice Warrior, Lunar Monk, Follower of Luana

Affiliations:

Enemies:

Status: Has been both Alive and Deceased (Due to Resh'an having split the timeline into an infinitely expanding plethora of alternate timelines, there exist countless worlds where Valere and Zale failed to defeat the Dweller of Strife in combat, with them only having stalemated it due to Resh'an getting involved in their conflict, which furthered their journey and allowed them to ascend into Solen and Luana)

Alignment: Neutral Good (Valere is one who follows the path of Luana, and thus follows her intended destiny as a Solstice Warrior to forever protect her world. She will often put her own life on the line in order to save others, and even crossed the Sea of Stars in order to save Seraï's world and face the Fleshmancer. Helped relocate the people of Port Town of Brisk when the Dweller of Strife was resurrected and saved countless lives. Defeated every dweller in her own world and Seraï's world, therefore saving the lives of everyone from their terror had they turned into World Eaters. Alongside Garl in his dying moments, Valere helped wake and pacify The Sleeper from its destructive ways)

Protection Level: Multiversal Protector (Not only defeated all the Dwellers in her timeline, but also bested the Dweller of Dread in Seraï's timeline, and later bested the Fleshmancer who is a threat to the entire multiverse)

Codex Statistics

Key: Child | Pre-Awakening |Post-Awakening | Luana

Tier: 10-C, Higher with Magic | At least 9-B, Higher with Magic, Unknown when empowered by a solar eclipse | 5-B, Higher when transformed | Unknown

Dimensionality: 3-D

Attack Potency: Below Average Human level (At this point in her life, Valere has only just begun using magic and is physically just a young girl), Higher with magic (Magic in Sea of Stars can amplify the user's power output in combat) | At least Wall level (Valere and Zale have now trained for nearly a decade of their lives and have grown far stronger to the point of being deemed Solstice Warriors by the Elder Mist, and were able to fight and defeat the Bosslug which can shake the entire cavern. Alongside Garl, Valere and Zale were able to best Malkomud and his pet salamander Rockie, the latter of which can burrow through rock at high speeds. Can destroy reinforced metal walls with little difficulty), Higher with magic (After learning how to "Use magic without using magic", Valere learned how to physically empower and amplify her power in combat) | Planet level (By this point in her journey, Valere and Zale have become fully connected to their potential and are powerful enough to best the Dweller of Dread without an eclipse to increase their power. She and Zale together were able to pull the moon out of the ocean and back into space. Defeated the Fleshmancer in the form of a World Eater, [ which are capable of consuming entire planets]) | Unknown ([ It is stated that once a Solstice Warrior ascends], [ their timeline is permanently saved with no force being able to oppose them], [ with the only known exception being to weaken their influence through the people's belief])

Durability:

Striking Strength:

Lifting Strength:

Travel Speed:

Combat Speed:

Reaction Speed:

Stamina:

Range:

Intelligence:


Powers and Techniques


Equipment


Notable Techniques


Other

Standard Tactics:

Weaknesses:

Explanations

Miscellaneous Feats

Trivia

Gallery

Battle Records

None.

None.

None.

References

{{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}} |}