Discussion Rules

Introduction

The following page is regarding rules for discussions about certain verses feats, statements, etcetera, about their validity, reliability, and more.

However, certain topics keep popping up repeatedly, generally made by new members, despite being discussed and resolved multiple times in the past. Due to the redundant nature, it is better to make a rule to ban discussion of certain conversations.

Do note the ban is purely based on the specific topic itself, a discussion based on something similar to the topic is allowed (I.E. Threads regarding upgrading Bob to tier 5 because he is stated to have the power to destroy the planet is banned because in context it was made by a crazy old person who has no legitimacy. If a new thread was made to upgrade Bob to tier 5 based on a reliable source saying it or him destroying the planet himself, that is fully allowed).

General Rules

• It is advised that if you are planning to make a thread on a topic you check to see if other threads have been made regarding the topic.
  • It is also doubly advised to not be rude while on a thread, please be respectful.
• When creating new discussion threads, it is required that our members add the relevant previously existing tags to them, for example the verse and most prominent characters that will be discussed during a content revision. If something goes wrong, and you need to add or change the tags of a certain thread, please ask the staff for help.
• Only add tags that are directly relevant to the discussion threads. This includes the names of verses and characters for which revisions are being argued about.
• When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the commenters will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics if people cannot understand what you mean. This makes it far easier to evaluate threads. This also works the other way around however. Do not write overly long and complicated threads that no one will realistically read through, it is preferable to keep your arguments concise, comprehensible, and explanatory.
• Content Revision Threads need to be supported by scans or any other direct proof that claimed events actually happened in the source material.
• To get better input in a content revision thread, inspect the knowledgeable members list to get information about the people who know much about a franchise.
• Generally try to avoid derailing content revision discussion threads from the original topic. Too many different subjects will cause a thread to never finish.
• This rule is listed specifically towards admins, do not act like your opinion regarding a thread is the ultimate say towards it. A thread’s acceptance is based off if enough knowledgeable members agree to the changes provided, the staff’s job is only to moderate threads and make sure they stay on track, along with offer insight regarding how the site treats certain concepts.

Franchise-Specific Rules

Dragon Ball Rules

• Do not attempt to argue Buu saga DBZ characters should be 4-A or 3-C for scaling above Cell Saga DBZ characters. The upper border of 4-B tier is roughly 122 billion times higher than the bottom, so an upgrade through mere powerscaling alone is impossible. The same can be applied for early Android Saga characters getting 4-C for being above Frieza but below Cell, as the distance between High 5-B's lower and upper border is roughly 44 thousand times.

• Do not attempt to upgrade DBS characters to 2-C or Low 2-B on the basis that Jiren is stronger then Infinite Zamasu, Beerus and Champa being able to destroy the universe, and Beerus destroying the macrocosm of universe 7. Infinite Zamasu did not merge with all of time, when Zeno destroyed everything they specifically mention being capable of returning back in time through the use of a time machine to where Zeno is. Thus Jiren being stronger then him would not grant 2-C or Low 2-B. For gods being able to destroy two universes, in the context of Dragon Ball Super universe destruction is turning space into an empty vacuum, essentially destroying the physical matter. Along with this universes has a definable, finite distance away from each other as shown in Super.

One-Punch Man Rules

• Do not attempt to downgrade Saitama off the basis that “destroying the planet can be High 6-A and he has other High 6-A feats, we have discussed this and concluded that Murata’s statement directly says he would blow up the planet, not life wipe it. Along with his High 6-A feats being superbly casual.

• Do not attempt to upgrade Saitama on him being consistently stated to be limitless, infinite, etcetera. While narratively he is such, feat wise he doesn’t meet the margin and thus we must go by what we see of him. We have also concluded that his infinite power and limitless statements is in reference to him having no end to his power so it can always increase without him reaching a limit.

Super Smash Bros. Rules

• Do not attempt to downgrade the Super Smash Bros. cast off the premise that they were “one-shotted by Tabuu” and that “Master Hand is holding back”. There is no actual statement of Master Hand holding back, rather people taking a trophy statement of him always looking for strong challengers out of context and Tabuu’s one-shot is only with a specific ability and not with his other attacks.

• Do not attempt to downgrade Master Hand off of the premise that “we don’t see him create every stage”, we see him in the Smash 64 intro create various stages and it is very fair to thus conclude that he has created every stage in Smash Bros.

• Do not attempt to upgrade Smash Bros. to 2-A based on Master Hand viewing the Smash cast as toys or Viridi’s infinite universes statement. The former does not grant an uncountably infinite transcendence and would be circular scaling. The latter is a mistranslation from the english version of smash.

Super Mario Bros. Rules

• Do not attempt to argue Mario and Paper Mario are different people because of Paper Jam, while they are displayed as different in that game it has been established by Miyamoto that Mario is essentially a troupe of actors representing different characters, thus Paper Mario and Mario are both Mario. Read this blog for further info.

• Do not attempt to upgrade base Mario to 2-B through defeating Dreamy Bowser. Mario couldn’t even harm Zeekeeper who in turn struggled against Dreamy Bowser’s force fields which even Mario himself couldn’t break through, making this fight massive PIS. It's also likely the Dream Stone and Dark Stone themselves are not 2-B in durability in terms of the stones themselves, so Antasma breaking the Dark Stone and Peach breaking the Dream Stone are not valid feats either.

Kingdom Hearts Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Kingdom Hearts characters to Low 2-B through defeating Xehanort with True Kingdom Hearts. They were all going to die to the feat and have consistently lower feats that would make this a huge outlier even if they were to scale. Additionally, do not scale them to Zeus’ High 4-C telekinesis feat, he did this off-screen and it is very unlikely he scales to this physically, especially with the strongest character in the verse, Remind Xehanort doing a telekinesis feat that only reaches 5-A.

• Do not attempt to upgrade Kingdom Hearts characters to 3-A through Data Sora defeating his data Heartless. It has been fully looked over and agreed upon that the collapse of the datascape is overtime and we don't even have a confirmed size to it, along with two important characters being heavily implied to die to the feat.

• Do not attempt to upgrade the cast to Extra-Temporal speed through Xehanort traveling through time. It has been revealed in KHuX that breaking the time barrier requires characters to go at the speed of light. To add on do not attempt to upgrade the KH characters to FTL+ speeds via Roxas' heart traveling from Radiant Garden to Keyblade Graveyard, firstly it's previously established that multiple portals that go to the keyblade graveyard, secondly it makes no sense for him to be only a heart as he has a body once he's landed, and finally Kingdom Hearts characters consistently get tagged by attacks far lower then FTL+ such as no character being able to react to Sora's keyblade beam without proper preparation and Sora just barely dodging a laser in the Monsters Inc world. To claim that the projectiles are FTL+ would be massive circular scaling.

MOTHER Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade the Chosen Four (asides from Post-Magicant Ness) to Giygas, it has been concluded by the experts that Ness likely shielded them from Giygas’ attacks as them suddenly jumping from tier 8/7 to tier 2 is a massive jump, along with no power boost asides from Ness. Do not also attempt scale Porky to Ness, we have no idea how the actual battle happened with Porky monologuing for the entire battle and no real official statement of who hit who, even if we assumed Porky hit him it would not only be an outlier but this would alternatively try to say Lucas and his party would scale to tier 2 making the scaling incoherent.

• Do not attempt to upgrade Mother 1 cast to Giygas, he was very likely holding back during his speech to Ninten and by the time he gets serious is when the eight melodies play. It also makes no sense when Giygas directly states their power compared to his is like an ant. Along with this it would be a random jump in power as Ninten and co. couldn't even defeat R-7037 without the help of EVE who both are far inferior to Giygas.

• Do not attempt to make a downgrade thread regarding Ness becoming the universe or Truth of the Universe’s existence this has been discussed before and it has been concluded both of these concepts exist in the verse. Especially do not attempt to debunk it’s nature using the English translation of EarthBound, majority of the scans comes from the Japanese version of the game.

• Do not attempt to downgrade Magicant based on it being a mirage or illusion, the context clearly implies that it’s because it’s a realm in the mind it doesn’t exist in that sense, as it’s not a place outside of one’s cognition, thus it’s still an abstract physical realm. You can read our Dream World Standards where magicant is used as a notable example.

Pokémon Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Pikachu to Arceus based on the premise that he harmed him in the Jewel of LIfe movie. In context he only harmed him because he didn’t have a specific plate, thus Pikachu was exploiting a weakness and does not scale to Arceus physically.

• Do not attempt to downgrade Arceus based on him getting harmed by a meteor. It is already regarded and noted in the Jewel of Life movie that this is a massive weakness of Arceus' lack of plates rather then his true durability.

• Do not try to upgrade any Pokémon trainers, even the strongest and most skilled, to 2-C or High 2-B based on them keeping up with the Creation Trio. This has been deemed inaccurate on the basis of Game Mechanics and Plot-Induced Stupidity, and it greatly contradicts what the lore has established. To briefly explain, Pokemon Trainers have consistently lower feats that aren't anywhere near Tier 2 and thus to imply they suddenly jumped to tier 2 with no real implication of them getting that much stronger or an amp shows a case of them needing to win for the sake of the plot rather then them being that strong.

The Legend of Zelda Rules

• Do not try to downgrade any of the cosmology based off the premise that “they’re not directly called universes” this has been discussed many times and it has been completely agreed that it would be ridiculous to assume these are not universes when parallel worlds have been consistently called universes in Zelda. Along with this a common thing with each parallel world in Zelda is that they contain stars in the sky, or at least a sun and are normally compared to another parallel world (Hyrule in most cases) which are full universes.

• Do not attempt to argue the Hyrule Encyclopedia is not canon, it is officially acknowledged by Aonuma and he helped with the writing along with the Historia, it having minor contradictions does not suddenly invalidate it as even regular Zelda games have minor contradictions. Aonuma even makes notice that in these lore books due to how long the franchise has run there will be inconsistencies.

Kid Icarus Rules

• Do not try to upgrade the characters to 4-A based on Pit harming Hades’ heart. The “stars” the heart look extremely odd and do not meet the standards for our starry skies. Especially adding on that even Gods such as Palutena in the verse are shocked by Dyntos doing a legitimate 4-A feat with no one being able to scale to Dyntos as he’s the absolute strongest in the verse.

Radiomaru Verse Rules

• Do not try to downgrade the Scott Pilgrim characters based on the premise that Todd is only 6-A with vegan powers. He wasn’t glowing when he punched the moon and Scott has consistently tanked hits from vegan Todd and the exes are directly stated by Scott to be stronger and harder battles. Along with characters like Gideon being directly unimpressed with Todd’s vegan powers, and being generally unimpressed and not surprised by Todd losing to Scott. For more information, one can read here.

Undertale Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Sans, Undyne and Mettaton to 2-B based on the premise that their stats are above Level 20 Chara’s or that they fought a level 19 Chara. For one, none of them fought Chara when they reached the absolute and human stats aren’t interchangeable with monster stats. The check stat system is also widely inconsistent and a self-destruction by mettaton which damaged it’s box form Frisk no-selled which would make Frisk and by proxy everyone 2-B making the scaling incoherent. For two, they are not fighting Chara they are fighting Frisk during a genocide run being controlled by The Anomaly, Chara even makes note of this during the ending. Finally, a "Level 19 Chara" is not 2-B for being right before a level 20 Chara when in actuality Chara is the embodiment of LOVE and thus applies to no level system.

A Hat in Time Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade the non-death wish cast to the time pieces, it took over hundreds of time pieces falling at different points to create a 4-A realm, and took many of them to create an alternate reality, Mustache Girl being amped by 40-50 isn’t enough to assume she directly scales to their feats. The reason Death Wish Time Pieces are allowed is because a single death wish time piece created the Twilight Realm’s time rift.

MS Paint Adventures Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Homestuck’s Top-Tiers to High 1-C/Low 1-B based on the “Extra-Dimensional Superstring Strata” as it does not have sufficient evidence to be upgraded and strings need to be proven to be apart of a brane cosmology to even reach higher dimensions, as well as using dimensional theories such as string theory

• Do not attempt to upgrade the verse to High 1-B or higher based off of statements from Feferi's Pesterquest route and the term "Creators All the Way Down" being used. See this blog for more information

• Do not attempt to downgrade the First Guardians from High 2-B based on the premise that Jack needed the miles to destroy Bilious Slick. While he did use the miles, Calliope made it clear that Bec’s energy caused the miles to become this powerful.

Touhou Project Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Touhou project to High 1-C on the basis that a character mentioned a study of "strings" and a brane world being mentioned. Just because someone is studying a concept does not equate to it existing apart of the verse and the verse has various different forms of quantum physics labeled around the verse making it overall inconsistent.

Sword Art Online Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Kirito to 4-A or higher on the basis that he "shook the universe", "absorbed stars", "changing the night sky", or "lighting up the galaxy", shaking the universe is a direct mistranslation and the rest are very clearly imagery rather then literal. The stars in question were the prayers of the people and lighting up the galaxy is used within the same sentence structure. For further information you can watch in-depth explanations on this in these two videos.

Minecraft Rules

• Do not attempt to upgrade Steve to 2-C to 1-C based off of the end poem. The end poem has been directly confirmed to be metaphorical and not an actual addition to the Minecraft lore with beings such as The Entities never being referenced again and the very author of the poem himself saying this is merely a metaphorical journey. Even if we were to assume this is legitimate, this would mean that Minecraft is completely featless as it's just a regular dream.

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