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Creation vs Destruction
Introduction
Creation vs. Destruction is a constantly debated topic across the versus debating community, spanning hundreds of different opinions. While it is impossible to convince millions of how to treat these feats we will be supplying how they will work on this site.
It should be noted however, downgrades of creation feats should not come solely because one feels that it’s weird for a verse to have this tier. If the feats are consistent, are not contradictory, and make sense in context they are fully usable. One should not try to remove the concept of creation feats solely because they cannot downgrade a verse that has a tier via creation, rather see if it’s consistent.
Creation Feats
Creation is defined as:
- cre·a·tion
/krēˈāSH(ə)n/ noun 1. the action or process of bringing something into existence. 2. the bringing into of existence of the universe, especially when regarded as an act of God.
This thus means that if we accept bringing something into existence as a legitimate feat of creation, the feat should be done in a short [around 1 second or so] or instantaneous time frame to physically scale. This means if the feat is done via one’s own energy this is a completely valid feat. This alternatively means that we would assume if you could create let’s say a Multi-Star Cluster pocket dimension you would also have the energy required to punch at that level.
Method of Creation
While the above explanation is the generally accepted idea for a legitimate creation feat, there are some methods done that can mess with this idea. The following are:
Background Feats
Background feats are when a character scaling to a creation feat is based off something in the background. If the character does a white flash of light and a background with stars are made, then that's fine to scale to physicals. However if the background has the area slowly overtime create the area or a character enters this dungeon, and happens to enter a room with stars in it, neither of these should scale. Instead of overtime feats or off-screen ones the character should get their physical tier, then a higher tier with Creation as it would be treated as a hax here.
Off-Screen Creation
Off screen creation has the similar scrutiny to background feats, for these it should be naturally shown characters are more similarly of this level, usually characters that are Gods get a pass as their cosmic nature would mean they physically scale to the feat. However, other characters need further context. Context includes, destruction feats on this level (as we accept creation as equal to destruction) or legitimate sustaining feats.
Creation through Hax
Creation through hax should not scale to physicals unless the hax in question directly scales to the persons physicals.
Other Creations Feats that are not Acceptable
If a character has a visual feat that is extremely vague and clearly there just for flare it is not considered a valid creation feat. This also extends to illusions that fall under Type 1 or Type 2. This could also include a character doing a transformation transition and stars suddenly appearing in the background, this is merely a visual effect and isn’t actually happening in-universe (do note characters acknowledging this would not suddenly prove the visual effect true as that would just be 4th wall awareness. The only exception is if they directly state the person did indeed create that background).
Examples
Examples of Applicable Creation Feats:
Examples of Non-Applicable Creation Feats:
- Fire Emblem mages making a galaxy-like background with their attacks.
- Kirby from Kirby of the Stars having stars in the background during his transformation sequence.
Disclaimer
There have been arguments saying creation feats shouldn’t scale to physical AP because there are too many anti feats for it or the author wasn’t thinking of that, these two arguments are disingenuous to full context. Yes the author generally does not interpret creation feats as the tier they are, but contrary to popular belief, authors don’t intend a character even with destruction feats to be the level they are. Authors don't normally think about the level of damage an attack inflicts, they simply do visual showings because they think it "looked cool". Using Butch Hartman again, here he is legitimately admitting he didn’t realize a cloud dispersion feat was impressive. For example, characters such as Golden Frieza scale to Goku who is galaxy level but then the writers specifically write in Frieza believing he will harm a person with an attack meant to destroy a planet. This is a clear showing of Toei not caring about levels or feats portrayed but rather just style over substance. In Xenoblade 2 there’s a direct statement that Pyra sank three continents, this would be an extremely blatant feat yet the authors later on make her unable to break through a wall. Yajirou Kojima from Grenadier could cut a missle in half yet thought he wouldn’t be able to cut through a boulder. Jimmy Hopkins from Bully can punch marble pillars and turn them into dust, takes no real damage from being hit with a sledgehammer through a wall, and many more objective wall feats yet a huge part of a mission is that he can’t break through regular wooden planks and needs the sledgehammer to do it. Then there are DC Writers that believe Superman is below planet despite the various higher physical feats he’s pulled over the decades. There are many more but these are just examples of very blatant showings where still the author doesn’t realize a character is actually at a level, this is one of the major reasons Plot-Induced Stupidity, Inconsistencies, and Outlier exist not because of creation feats but primarily destruction feats. To simply argue that creation feats aren’t useable because they have anti feats behind them is dishonest to destruction feats having the exact same problem, no fictional verse will ever be perfect, all of them will have anti feats, this is a common ideology, what should be taken is the most consistent amount of feats and viewing how a tier will work for the verse. Creation feats are valid feats and always will be, whether or not it will scale to someone or is consistent to use should be the discussion/topic for the verse, not the validity of creation = destruction.
There are also concessions we must take naturally with tiering fictional verses, one of the major one’s being the law of conservation of mass which states: “Mass in an isolated system is neither created nor destroyed by chemical reactions or physical transformations.” Though this is consistently contradicted in fiction. If we truly want to follow this, we should also follow the ideology that traveling past the speed of light should require no mass, completely destroy causality, etcetera. There will never be a perfect method to tiering fiction but attempting to apply every realistic application to a form of medium that is the opposite of real would be bad practice.
Note
- Do note that arguments such as “creation of a house isn’t 8-C” does not work in this case as the creation of a house is done via various tools and objects of construction that is done over a very long period of time and is nothing like creating something from your own energy in an instant, thus this argument is a false equivalence.
- Do also note for debates such as starry sky creations if the background shown is outer space and contains objects that look like stars it is fine to assume them stars, especially if they contain nebulae in them.
- Do note while Pocket Realities do normally in theories fall under different laws of physics, if the pocket reality shown in question still operates under our world’s gravity and such we will assume the feat is equal to if someone did it outside of a pocket reality. The other argumentation that a character might be stronger in a pocket reality will also be taken into account, however if the other characters beats them in the pocket reality just as they did outside of the pocket reality, then it will not be assumed they're that much stronger.
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