Versus Threads

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Introduction

The main purpose of the wiki falls under indexing characters, though as a side activity for fun, we allow one to do versus threads for the character profiles they made or others have made. This is primarily for ways to discuss interesting topics. However, due to the normally toxic nature of these topics from certain communities, there are guidelines that we need to stress and must be followed. The following will give the guidelines along with potential ideas one can do for a versus thread.

Versus Thread discussions are done within the within versus thread category on the WikiForum.

Possible Types of Versus Matches

Versus Matches are normally considered to be a "who will win in a fight?" however, this isn't every versus match.

Here are some examples:

• Out of verse Character vs Character: The most popular form of a versus match, where characters from different verses fight to see which is stronger.

• In-verse Character vs Character Matches: A secondary popular form of versus matches, where characters from within the verse battle, note that the ones allowed are under specific stipulations to make them interesting or if they haven't already happened in verse.

• Investigation Matches: These are matches to deal with fictional characters popular for being detectives getting into battle with each other. Unlike the last two threads where they are fighting to see who wins, they are instead solving an investigation and seeing who can do it first or finding out something about the person. A very popular example regarding this is a detective trying to find out Kira (Light Yagami)'s identity.

• Race Matches: These are matches where a characters speed matters the most, this mainly goes under people who fall under the speedsters category, though characters with vehicles, ships, and animals can also used in these matches.

• Object vs Verse Matches: This will likely be the rarest. This is normally that one sets up an object against notable characters in a verse and decide on if they'd go through the mechanics the object does or not. As an example, The Switch from OFF erases everything once it's turned OFF, for a thread example one could ask "Would these notable characters survive the Switch".

• Gauntlets: These are matches that are a continuous challenge, fighting a specific number of contestants, such as someone fighting an entire family.

Regarding Verdicts

Versus matches are treated differently from how other sites normally handle them. In these, there's no real vote "for reasons above" (FRA) or voting system as this is felt that it essentially becomes a case of who on the thread was able to overwhelm the opposing side. This feels less genuine of who wins and more of trying to find an agenda, thus versus thread rules have been updated since then.

The process used now for versus threads falls under essentially a "court" system in a way. To use the simplest example on this list, cross-versus matches, let's say we have a match between X and Y, the default assumption before the arguments are presented will be that the match is inconclusive until proven that one side has means beyond a reasonable doubt as to why they win.

For wanting to know how a reasonable doubt is implemented either read the Battle Boarding Procedures post or here: The question may be, how would one define "Beyond a reasonable doubt"?

While this seems simple on paper, the process is very vague due to the many different ways battles can go.

For example, potency of an ability, there could be an argument over whose ability is more potent, thus we will be properly defining how this works:

• For one, anything a character does must be within the profile; otherwise, it cannot be accepted. If a blatant ability or feat is missing from a profile, simply make a thread to add it. The opposing side cannot hide behind a dismissive "that's not on the profile" when the ability or feat is extremely blatant or explicitly stated in the source material. Instead, they should inform the other side to create an addition thread and refute the argument based on the likelihood that it will be accepted (essentially debating as if the ability were already on the page until the formal addition thread concludes otherwise). This rule does not apply to ludicrous or difficult-to-prove abilities.
• Arguments must fall within the accepted standards and methodologies of the wiki. Concepts or opinions borrowed from other communities that are not accepted here have no basis. If one wishes to introduce such concepts, they merely need to create a thread, and the community will discuss whether those concepts are usable or reasonable enough to be adopted.
• Debunking an existing ability or technique requires a separate thread. If a participant wishes to create a thread to remove an ability from a profile, the versus thread must be put on hold as soon as that removal thread is created, or, if the debunking pertains only to a lesser argument, that specific argument must be put on hold—until a conclusion is reached in the removal thread.
• Methods for victory must fall within reasonability and in-character strategies. A common misconception is that a character with Precognition will automatically use the optimal ability to counter an opponent's specific threat. Unless the character has a demonstrated history of using precognition to inform tactical decisions in this precise manner (switching away from their standard opening move to a less familiar but more effective counter) this does not meet the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt." For instance, if Bob characteristically opens with death manipulation but possesses battlefield removal as an alternative, the fact that his precognition reveals an incoming instant kill from Sam does not automatically mean Bob will abandon his established tactics and use battlefield removal instead. Such a claim requires explicit support from the character's profile demonstrating this level of tactical adaptability. Otherwise, reasonable doubt remains. The methods must be understood in such a way that you could reasonably see them being employed within an official crossover, based on how the character actually fights, not on an optimized hypothetical.

To a certain extent, even if the match is a stomp, it is allowed to be added under certain restrictions:

• It must be that both sides had a in-depth discussion over all possibilities of both sides and came to the conclusion that it ends one-sidedly in the other characters favor. Effectively this means that it was argued enough to actually have some merit and discussion while also preventing the attempt to stop a side's character from losing through hiding it behind a stomp.
• If it is simply a quick comment everyone agrees with, it cannot be added. For example, if someone made Asura vs Kion it's easily that Asura outstats in every capacity, thus there's no real discussion to be had here and this can be removed.
• If a thread is made with clear malicious purpose then it will be removed/closed regardless of "it's right" or not. Do not make threads in mind to antagonize others, only cases would be if both sides are in on the joke and it's mere friendly banter for a thread that's actually debatable.
• Threads in response to off-site matchups where a character one like lost are technically allowed, but if it is to "prove" it's a stomp then it will be closed in most cases. If it's an actual arguable matchup, then very simply do not bring up other threads out of anger or trying to refute arguments from off site that were not made on the thread itself. Versus Threads are not made to "one-up" or "prove wrong", they are simply for fun.

Threads do not need overwhelming majority to get passed, a small group having a general consensus with no arguments can have their thread added. This is made in mind for smaller communities and series that are far more niche thus they do not have as many supporters to comment. However, there are some restrictions to this:

• It is important to message a moderator (in most cases GiverOfThePeace) to see if there's anyone else interested in the matchup that may oppose something. If a moderator is already in the thread agreeing with the consensus though, there is no need to message one.
• The people with the general consensus should have a good idea of both character's and their abilities, though if there's a case where any expert from the verse isn't on the wiki, deferring to the page is allowed.
• While the thread can be added, the thread will forever remained open, this is for opposition to enter the thread and provide potential counter-arguments to deconstruct a narrative presented in the thread. The thread only truly closes if it effectively becomes a one-sentence stomp thread, thus it can be removed from both parties.

Rules

General Rules

• Toxicity in threads are not allowed, while debates getting slightly heated is not surprising with the topics it is expected that both sides are mature in the debate and throw no insults to the other side.

• Any form of mental breakdowns, temper tantrums, tangents, rants, in versus threads over a character losing will not be tolerated. These are fictional characters and we expect all people to come into the thread acknowledging that.

• Don't bait people into making heated responses.

• If it's obvious neither side is going to come to convince the other, it's best to reach an agree to disagree, do not harass the other side for not agreeing with you, no matter how wrong you think they are, the conversation at the end of the day is merely talking about a hypothetical scenarios of what fictional characters would do.

• Do not spam on the threads, normally keep everything to one or two messages for replies.

Battle Rules

• If no other specifications are stated for the match, standard battle assumptions will be considered.

• Even if a character has the potential to reach a certain tier, the use of any tier between that tier and the one it scales to is not allowed. For example, characters with Varies from 8-B to 6-C cannot be put at 7-B as that is not listed on the profile.

• Characters who have shown resistance to time-stopping abilities are assumed to be resistant to time-slowing abilities by default, asides from specific situations where this is treated differently.

• One is allowed to have characters fight other characters above or below their tier as it's a fun and game thread at the end of the day.

Handling Varies/Unknown Characters

Varies and Unknown characters are harder to deal with as they don't have set tiers due to their gimmicks. Characters such as Chowder don't have a consistent tier as they're just as funny as the plot needs them to be. Thus the conundrum becomes how to make that exactly work in a thread as they're obviously not shifting a tier literally every single second.

These are how they're handled:

• Varies Tier
  • For characters that are Varies-A: As they are varied under absurdity of being akin to looney-toons characters, their tiers would match whatever is needed for them. Thus for a versus thread one can realistically just give them the tier needed for the matchup to work. For example Mario could fight against All Star Superman and be assumed 4-C for the case of the thread to work. One could also use for cases like Mario that since Varies effectively makes no feat in actuality an Outlier, one could use a feat from his game to put him at a tier for a thread.
  • For characters that are Varies-B: Varies-Grounded characters usually have an in narrative reason for their varying, such as Marvel and DC comic characters tapping into sources that make them as strong as they need to be. In cases like these they also have a base tier that's usable. Due to their varying being more grounded as the name says, it would be instead one could use feats they've shown specifically for setting a tier against another in a versus thread.
  • For characters that are Varies-C: Varies-C characters work similarly to Varies-A as they are an inconsistent anomaly that fluctuates in power. Though due to them requiring an in-universe reason to even gather this tier, they would fall similarly to Varies-B requirement of feats they've specifically shown.
  • For characters that are Varies-D: Varies-D characters are solely based off of preparation, thus it wouldn't matter as preparation is not their main tier. Normally a Varies-D character would not be physically Varies-D. The only thing of note is whatever prep feat they utilized is allowed on the thread for discussion.
  • For characters that are Varies-E: Varies-E characters are based off abilities or skills they have varying normally on their willpower, state of mind, or how long they took to charge the attack, like characters from Dragon Ball. The normal agreement with this tier is if they can get a long enough charge off, they can normally finish off the opponent with the blast if they both possess the same durability. Though normally a Varies-E character would not be physically Varies-E so much like Varies-D, it wouldn't matter for their main tier.
• Unknown Tier: The Unknown tiers are far more defined in a sense, while their tiers are still greatly mysterious and the full extent of their abilities are largely unknown, the baseline is that basic inferences can be made. Unknown-A's in terms of AP would most likely beat Unknown-B's. Thus Unknown-A's normally should fight against other Unknown-A's and Unknown-B's should normally fight against other Unknown-B's. Thus they don't really have a way to decide what tier they could be but rather this will describe how they're handled on a versus thread and how they interact with physical AP based wincons.
  • Unknown-A: As Unknown-A are treated as cosmic level entities, normally creator gods or characters that can beat them, they would generally be pretty powerful. In terms of what could realistically kill them, it would need to be based off a case by case of what the series shows for physical AP. Otherwise abilities and techniques are a different story.
  • Unknown-B: As Unknown-B's are treated as extremely powerful entities of unknown scale, they are far more vague to deal with. In terms of what could realistically kill them, it would need to be based off a case by case of what the series shows for physical AP. Otherwise abilities and techniques are a different story.
  • Unknown-C: This covers characters in scenarios where they by all intents and purposes are comparable to a character but the tier makes no sense within the narrative. For threads it can be assumed their scaling to said character would be their upper limit.
  • Unknown-D: These are the hardest to gauge as this is based off characters that show no real feats, though normally they are case by case basis. Typically the characters are ultimately featless so there's no way to say what they would survive physically asides from very rough approximations and guesses.
  • Unknown-E: These are based off characters within a lower reality, thus the question is exactly how both sides would interact with the other.

This is overall how Varies and Unknown tiers will be handled on versus threads.