The official discord link if you wish to join the discord: https://discord.gg/j5RKwCvAFu

The background art comes from Cherylann1960.

Dimensional Tiering Explanation: Difference between revisions

From The Codex
Say Abracadavre Now
Say Abracadavre Now (talk | contribs) (Protected "Dimensional Tiering Explanation" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite)))
m
GiverOfThePeace
GiverOfThePeace (talk | contribs) (→‎top: clean up and re-categorisation per CFD)
m
 
(28 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{|class=width="100%" style="border:4px solid #856363; border-radius:7.5px; clear:both; font-size:75%; font-family:verdana;" align="center""
! colspan="2" style="background:#FF0000; border-radius:3.25px;" align="center"|''Important Codex Wiki Articles''
|-
|width="15%" "background:grey; border-radius:3.25px;"|'''Important Pages'''
|[[The Codex Wiki]] - [[Site FAQ]] - [[The Codex:About|General Help Page]]- [[Tiering System]] - [[Civilization Tiering System]] - [[Codex Profile Rules|Rules for Codex Profiles]] - [[Common Editing Mistakes]] - [[Disclaimer]] - [[How to Handle Calculations]] - [[Universe]] - [[Multiverse]] - [[Omniverse]] - [[Projectile and Objects Feats]] - [[Dimensional Tiering Explanation]] - [[Common Terminology]] - [[Discussion Rules]] - [[Reference for Common Feats]] - [[Rules for Acceptable Profiles]] - [[Rules for Fanon Profiles]] - [[Misleading Titles]] - [[Mistranslations]] - [[Outside Wiki Standards]] - [[Statements]] - [[Verse Cosmology Categorizations]] - [[Fictional Universes]]
|-
|width="15%" "background:grey; border-radius:3.25px;"|'''Terminology'''
|[[Alignment]] - [[Status]] - [[Protection Level]] - [[Threat Level]] - [[Cardinality]] - [[Grade]] - [[Dimensionality]] - [[Attack Potency]] - [[Durability]] - [[Speed]] - [[Reactions]] - [[Lifting Strength]] - [[Striking Strength]] - [[Range]] - [[Intelligence]] - [[Knowledge]] - [[Powers and Techniques]] - [[State of Being]] - [[Physiology]] - [[Equipment]] - [[No Limits Fallacy]] - [[Omnipotence]] - [[Cinematic Time]] - [[Canon]] - [[Canon|Crossover]] - [[Multipliers]] - [[Environmental Destruction]] - [[Bloodlust]] - [[Chain Reactions]] -[[Outside Help]] - [[Space]] - [[The Kardashev Scale]] - [[Infinity]] - [[Power Source]] - [[Light Speed]] - [[Requirements for Speed of Light/Faster Than Light Speeds]]
|-
|"background:grey; border-radius:3.25px;"|'''Standards'''
|[[Transcendence]] - [[Creation vs Destruction]] - [[Outlier]] - [[Ludonarrative Dissonance]] - [[Inconsistency]] - [[Plot-Induced Stupidity]] - [[Reality - Fiction Interaction]] - [[Powerscaling]] - [[Black Hole]] - [[Wormhole]] - [[Stabilization Feats]] - [[Merging Feats]] - [[Embodying Feats]] - [[Data World Standards]] - [[Dream World Standards]] - [[Standard Battle Assumptions]] - [[One-Shot]] - [[Speed Blitz]] - [[Penetration Damage]] - [[Blunt Force Damage]] - [[Death of the Author]] - [[Versus Threads]] - [[Information Pages]] - [[Light Dodging Feats]] - [[Lightning Standards]] - [[Timeless Void Standards]]
|-
|"background:grey; border-radius:3.25px;"|'''Formats'''
|[[Standard Format for Character Profiles]] - [[Standard Format for Factions]] - [[Standard Format for Cosmic Forces]] - [[Standard Format for Events]] - [[Standard Format for Verse Pages]] - [[Standard Format for Locations Profiles]] - [[Standard Format for Weapon Profiles]] - [[Standard Format for Powers and Abilities]] - [[Standard Format for Civilization Profiles]] - [[Standard Format for Category Names]] - [[Standard Templates For Tabbers]]
|}
<br>
[[File:Hypercubes.jpg|right|400px]]
[[File:Hypercubes.jpg|right|400px]]
==Introduction==
==Introduction==
Line 24: Line 41:


{{Quote|"Klein’s contribution best addressed the question of why such a fifth dimension would not be observable—consistent with Ehrenfest’s conclusion that space appears three-dimensional. In an idea known as compactification, Klein envisioned that the higher dimension would be rolled up into a tiny, compact loop on the order of 10^-33 centimeters. Thus, while it would supply (in theory, if not in practice) a means of unification, it would be undetectable—like a curled up pill bug camouflaged as a dot on a leaf."|[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/how-many-dimensions-does-the-universe-really-have/ Klein's explanation for why there's a 5th dimension]}}
{{Quote|"Klein’s contribution best addressed the question of why such a fifth dimension would not be observable—consistent with Ehrenfest’s conclusion that space appears three-dimensional. In an idea known as compactification, Klein envisioned that the higher dimension would be rolled up into a tiny, compact loop on the order of 10^-33 centimeters. Thus, while it would supply (in theory, if not in practice) a means of unification, it would be undetectable—like a curled up pill bug camouflaged as a dot on a leaf."|[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/how-many-dimensions-does-the-universe-really-have/ Klein's explanation for why there's a 5th dimension]}}
Something interesting to add is also, there have been recent studies to suggest the universe was initially in a lower dimensional state and during that state it had more energy and temperature then our current 3-dimensional universe. (Source: [https://phys.org/news/2011-03-physicists-dimensions-universe.html#:~:text=The%20theories%20suggest%20that%20the,evidence%20in%20cosmic%20ray%20observations. Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe])
{{Quote|"More recently, physicists have been theorizing the possibility of lower dimensionality, in which the universe has only two or even one spatial dimension(s), along with one dimension of time. The theories suggest that the lower dimensions occurred in the past when the universe was much smaller and had a much higher energy level (and temperature) than today. Further, it appears that the concept of lower dimensions may already have some experimental evidence in cosmic ray observations."|Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe}}
{{Quote|"The scientists don’t know the exact energy levels (or the exact age of the universe) when the transitions between dimensions occurred. However, they think that the universe’s energy level and size directly determine its number of dimensions, and that the number of dimensions evolves over time as the energy and size change. They predict that the transition from a (1 + 1)- to a (2 + 1)-dimensional universe happened when the temperature of the universe was about 100 TeV (teraelectronvolts) or less, and the transition from a (2 + 1)- to a (3 + 1)-dimensional universe happened later at about 1 TeV. Today, the temperature of the universe is about 10-3 eV."|Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe}}
==Examples of Dimensions Not Being Used for Higher Stats==
An easy example of this comes from the video game ''Super Paper Mario'' where the entire gimmick of the game is crossing between the second and third dimension, Mario can even become a [https://imgur.com/a/OMplcuj one-dimensional being in the game], whenever he transfers between any of these dimensions, Mario does not grow infinitely weaker or stronger in strength, all these are utilized for is to pass through enemies as Mario is using different axis of movement. Thus a perfect example of why dimensional tiering isn't valid for stating.
Another example comes from ''Super Mario RPG: Legends of the Seven Stars'' where the cast fights Culex, a being [https://legendsoflocalization.com/culex-is-quite-different-in-japanese-super-mario-rpg/ who has the power of creation that rules over everything in the universe], and having the top stats in the game. Despite all of this, [https://legendsoflocalization.com/culex-is-quite-different-in-japanese-super-mario-rpg/ Culex is a two dimensional being], while he does note the power of the third dimension being something strong, he is in reference to the various meanings it has rather then the three spatial dimensions.
Another prime example comes from [[Mr. Game & Watch]], [https://youtu.be/BywLk1Me-30?t=7476 a two dimensional being] can fight with the Smash Cast, who are three dimensional beings.
[[Dipper Pines]] from Gravity Falls [https://youtu.be/EM41UVNOM5g?t=78 was easily overpowered] by Rumble McSkirmish, [https://youtu.be/EM41UVNOM5g?t=114 who is treated as] [https://youtu.be/EM41UVNOM5g?t=123 a second dimensional being].


==Conclusion==
==Conclusion==

Latest revision as of 04:34, 4 July 2024

Important Codex Wiki Articles
Important Pages The Codex Wiki - Site FAQ - General Help Page- Tiering System - Civilization Tiering System - Rules for Codex Profiles - Common Editing Mistakes - Disclaimer - How to Handle Calculations - Universe - Multiverse - Omniverse - Projectile and Objects Feats - Dimensional Tiering Explanation - Common Terminology - Discussion Rules - Reference for Common Feats - Rules for Acceptable Profiles - Rules for Fanon Profiles - Misleading Titles - Mistranslations - Outside Wiki Standards - Statements - Verse Cosmology Categorizations - Fictional Universes
Terminology Alignment - Status - Protection Level - Threat Level - Cardinality - Grade - Dimensionality - Attack Potency - Durability - Speed - Reactions - Lifting Strength - Striking Strength - Range - Intelligence - Knowledge - Powers and Techniques - State of Being - Physiology - Equipment - No Limits Fallacy - Omnipotence - Cinematic Time - Canon - Crossover - Multipliers - Environmental Destruction - Bloodlust - Chain Reactions -Outside Help - Space - The Kardashev Scale - Infinity - Power Source - Light Speed - Requirements for Speed of Light/Faster Than Light Speeds
Standards Transcendence - Creation vs Destruction - Outlier - Ludonarrative Dissonance - Inconsistency - Plot-Induced Stupidity - Reality - Fiction Interaction - Powerscaling - Black Hole - Wormhole - Stabilization Feats - Merging Feats - Embodying Feats - Data World Standards - Dream World Standards - Standard Battle Assumptions - One-Shot - Speed Blitz - Penetration Damage - Blunt Force Damage - Death of the Author - Versus Threads - Information Pages - Light Dodging Feats - Lightning Standards - Timeless Void Standards
Formats Standard Format for Character Profiles - Standard Format for Factions - Standard Format for Cosmic Forces - Standard Format for Events - Standard Format for Verse Pages - Standard Format for Locations Profiles - Standard Format for Weapon Profiles - Standard Format for Powers and Abilities - Standard Format for Civilization Profiles - Standard Format for Category Names - Standard Templates For Tabbers


Introduction

Dimensional Tiering is a type of scaling assuming that higher dimensions are higher infinities and thus higher dimensions are essentially the meta for this scaling. This scaling holds massive issues however that will be explained.

How does Dimensional Tiering Work

Dimensional Tiering essentially has this idea: we will use two characters, Ana and Bob. Bob is a 5th dimensional being and Ana is a 6th dimensional being. Through dimensional tiering due to Ana's dimension, she is infinitely superior to and faster then Bob is.

The Problem

Firstly the problem with dimensional tiering falls under a concept known as scalar and vector quantites.


Power comes from energy. According to dimensional tiering, a 4-D being would have an infinitely higher form of energy, and that there is "3-D" energy which we use. However, this is incorrect. Energy is a scalar value. Energy being a scalar means it is not limited or contrained to a value for displacement or direction, meaning there is no limit to its dimensionality. This means there is no such thing as a dimensioned energy. If there's no dimensioned energy, there is no higher infinite just from being in a higher dimension.

Another aspect of dimensional tiering is that, higher dimensional axis exists infinitely transcendant to a lower dimension in such a way that a lower dimensional object absolutely cannot interact with the higher dimension. This however, is incorrect.

For example, scientists actually have actually theorized that they can detect higher dimensions through our worldly matter:

As gravity is thought to be a force able to probe these extra dimensions, another way in which we may be find evidence for string theory is through the disappearance of gravitons, the hypothesised carrier of gravity, into these other dimensions. The particle might be carried away without a trace, but it would leave behind an imbalance in momentum and energy.

Two of the most fundamental laws of physics are that momentum and energy “are conserved”. In other words, the total momentum and energy before a collision is equal to the total momentum and energy after. So if we add these up in all the observed particles emerging from a collision (in the case of CMS we do this is the sideways “transverse” direction) and it does not equal the amount in the original particles, there must be a missing particle that carried away the momentum and energy: a lost piece leaving a hole in the jigsaw.

~ CERN Detecting Extra Dimensions

Another aspect is that these higher dimensional axis are infinitely larger then lower dimensional axis. This is also incorrect.

"Klein’s contribution best addressed the question of why such a fifth dimension would not be observable—consistent with Ehrenfest’s conclusion that space appears three-dimensional. In an idea known as compactification, Klein envisioned that the higher dimension would be rolled up into a tiny, compact loop on the order of 10^-33 centimeters. Thus, while it would supply (in theory, if not in practice) a means of unification, it would be undetectable—like a curled up pill bug camouflaged as a dot on a leaf."
~ Klein's explanation for why there's a 5th dimension

Something interesting to add is also, there have been recent studies to suggest the universe was initially in a lower dimensional state and during that state it had more energy and temperature then our current 3-dimensional universe. (Source: Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe)

"More recently, physicists have been theorizing the possibility of lower dimensionality, in which the universe has only two or even one spatial dimension(s), along with one dimension of time. The theories suggest that the lower dimensions occurred in the past when the universe was much smaller and had a much higher energy level (and temperature) than today. Further, it appears that the concept of lower dimensions may already have some experimental evidence in cosmic ray observations."
~ Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe
"The scientists don’t know the exact energy levels (or the exact age of the universe) when the transitions between dimensions occurred. However, they think that the universe’s energy level and size directly determine its number of dimensions, and that the number of dimensions evolves over time as the energy and size change. They predict that the transition from a (1 + 1)- to a (2 + 1)-dimensional universe happened when the temperature of the universe was about 100 TeV (teraelectronvolts) or less, and the transition from a (2 + 1)- to a (3 + 1)-dimensional universe happened later at about 1 TeV. Today, the temperature of the universe is about 10-3 eV."
~ Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe

Examples of Dimensions Not Being Used for Higher Stats

An easy example of this comes from the video game Super Paper Mario where the entire gimmick of the game is crossing between the second and third dimension, Mario can even become a one-dimensional being in the game, whenever he transfers between any of these dimensions, Mario does not grow infinitely weaker or stronger in strength, all these are utilized for is to pass through enemies as Mario is using different axis of movement. Thus a perfect example of why dimensional tiering isn't valid for stating.

Another example comes from Super Mario RPG: Legends of the Seven Stars where the cast fights Culex, a being who has the power of creation that rules over everything in the universe, and having the top stats in the game. Despite all of this, Culex is a two dimensional being, while he does note the power of the third dimension being something strong, he is in reference to the various meanings it has rather then the three spatial dimensions.

Another prime example comes from Mr. Game & Watch, a two dimensional being can fight with the Smash Cast, who are three dimensional beings.

Dipper Pines from Gravity Falls was easily overpowered by Rumble McSkirmish, who is treated as a second dimensional being.

Conclusion

Dimensional Tiering is not a useable form of scaling, the only cases where it could be considered is where the dimensions are treated as higher infinite hierarchies.